1 00:00:09,799 --> 00:00:07,070 today we welcome 2 00:00:11,150 --> 00:00:09,809 Alexis Brooks to skeptic Oh Alexis is a 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:11,160 well-known journalist in the 4 00:00:16,970 --> 00:00:14,250 consciousness and UFO communities as 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:16,980 well as being a best-selling author and 6 00:00:23,509 --> 00:00:20,490 host of hire Germany's radio a show you 7 00:00:25,759 --> 00:00:23,519 might have checked out if you're at all 8 00:00:27,679 --> 00:00:25,769 familiar with these fields and you've 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:27,689 come across your excellent work it's 10 00:00:32,389 --> 00:00:30,570 really a terrific show some fantastic 11 00:00:34,819 --> 00:00:32,399 interviews with many best-selling 12 00:00:36,860 --> 00:00:34,829 authors many folks that you've already 13 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:36,870 listened to here on skeptic OH but 14 00:00:41,330 --> 00:00:39,210 Alexis brings so much to those 15 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:41,340 interviews and it's just a great 16 00:00:46,790 --> 00:00:44,250 pleasure to meet her Alexis thank you so 17 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:46,800 much for joining me on skeptic Oh Alex 18 00:00:50,150 --> 00:00:48,210 what a pleasure and I just said my 19 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:50,160 name's sake I love it I you know I'll 20 00:00:55,810 --> 00:00:53,730 never forget your name and listen let me 21 00:00:57,830 --> 00:00:55,820 just say right off the bat I have 22 00:01:00,080 --> 00:00:57,840 somewhat recently become familiar with 23 00:01:02,150 --> 00:01:00,090 sceptical but I'm gonna tell you a quick 24 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:02,160 study and I'm loving it already and I 25 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:03,809 think I said to you offline that we have 26 00:01:08,060 --> 00:01:06,450 several mutual colleagues in common all 27 00:01:12,260 --> 00:01:08,070 of which sing your praises so I'm 28 00:01:14,179 --> 00:01:12,270 delighted to be here honored well I mean 29 00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:14,189 I think that's that's super nice of you 30 00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:15,240 to say 31 00:01:19,730 --> 00:01:18,630 I just guess I want to give people a 32 00:01:21,499 --> 00:01:19,740 little bit of the background on the 33 00:01:24,620 --> 00:01:21,509 origins this interview because it really 34 00:01:28,039 --> 00:01:24,630 did just spring from listening to your 35 00:01:31,340 --> 00:01:28,049 show and saying wow this is the kind of 36 00:01:33,410 --> 00:01:31,350 stuff covered in the way in the in-depth 37 00:01:35,749 --> 00:01:33,420 way that really does try and get at the 38 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:35,759 deeper questions and things that I 39 00:01:41,980 --> 00:01:38,610 really want to engage in conversation 40 00:01:45,850 --> 00:01:41,990 with and I have this thing where I think 41 00:01:48,109 --> 00:01:45,860 that journalists like yourself 42 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:48,119 podcasters you know who are going 43 00:01:53,270 --> 00:01:50,460 through and breeding these new books as 44 00:01:54,889 --> 00:01:53,280 they come out and then digesting them 45 00:01:57,380 --> 00:01:54,899 and assimilating the end of information 46 00:01:59,120 --> 00:01:57,390 and trying to make it fit with 47 00:02:01,670 --> 00:01:59,130 everything else that they've learned 48 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:01,680 you're just a wealth of knowledge I just 49 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:04,610 think of all the interviews I can do 50 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:07,110 these are the kinds that I think can be 51 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:09,209 most valuable because you do have such a 52 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:11,250 unique perspective and that goes beyond 53 00:02:13,460 --> 00:02:11,970 just kind 54 00:02:15,710 --> 00:02:13,470 singing your praises or patting you on 55 00:02:19,250 --> 00:02:15,720 the back I think you sit in a really 56 00:02:20,870 --> 00:02:19,260 unique position and I'm excited to take 57 00:02:23,540 --> 00:02:20,880 advantage of that and bring that to the 58 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:23,550 skeptical audience oh thank you I do 59 00:02:26,630 --> 00:02:25,290 appreciate that and I have to tell you 60 00:02:28,670 --> 00:02:26,640 as I'm listening to all of these 61 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:28,680 accolades which I don't know that I can 62 00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:30,810 live up to I will say this time and time 63 00:02:36,770 --> 00:02:34,110 again Alex I am no more than my guests I 64 00:02:40,070 --> 00:02:36,780 am the one who is blessed as I think we 65 00:02:42,230 --> 00:02:40,080 both are to have such a spectrum of 66 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:42,240 knowledge I say them I'm the luckiest 67 00:02:46,340 --> 00:02:44,010 gal in the planet that I get to engage 68 00:02:49,790 --> 00:02:46,350 with these clearly thought leaders that 69 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:49,800 are leading the charge on what we call 70 00:02:56,300 --> 00:02:54,090 this new age if you will so you know 71 00:02:57,620 --> 00:02:56,310 every show I do and as I said as soon as 72 00:02:59,480 --> 00:02:57,630 we finish up I'm gonna be getting on 73 00:03:01,610 --> 00:02:59,490 with someone who I greatly respect neil 74 00:03:05,150 --> 00:03:01,620 kramer for the third time he'll be on my 75 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:05,160 show I learned so much I'm really the 76 00:03:09,190 --> 00:03:06,810 one that's scanning the gift I have to 77 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:09,200 tell you and because I do have a natural 78 00:03:14,420 --> 00:03:12,090 thirst hunger if you will for these big 79 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:14,430 questions always have it feels right 80 00:03:17,210 --> 00:03:16,650 it's easy to engage to talk about things 81 00:03:19,790 --> 00:03:17,220 that you enjoy 82 00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:19,800 absolutely well that's a great lead-in 83 00:03:25,910 --> 00:03:21,840 for you know just a real basic question 84 00:03:28,790 --> 00:03:25,920 who is Alexis cooks you have such an 85 00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:28,800 interesting background tell folks a 86 00:03:33,809 --> 00:03:31,830 little bit about your bio because it's 87 00:03:35,839 --> 00:03:33,819 pretty cool 88 00:03:39,119 --> 00:03:35,849 I'm so tempted to come up with a 89 00:03:41,759 --> 00:03:39,129 sarcastic answer who is Alexis Brooks I 90 00:03:43,349 --> 00:03:41,769 think what and I'll say it with a little 91 00:03:45,780 --> 00:03:43,359 tongue-in-cheek but I think a part of me 92 00:03:47,309 --> 00:03:45,790 is is still asking that question isn't 93 00:03:51,270 --> 00:03:47,319 that one of the big questions we all ask 94 00:03:52,860 --> 00:03:51,280 who are we may I use that as a segue I 95 00:03:56,490 --> 00:03:52,870 don't know that that is the number one 96 00:03:58,589 --> 00:03:56,500 big question that I have had Who am I 97 00:04:00,509 --> 00:03:58,599 why are we here I think that's part and 98 00:04:03,750 --> 00:04:00,519 parcel of the bigger questions that we 99 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:03,760 asked but I will just say Alex I and I 100 00:04:07,610 --> 00:04:05,530 said this before I think I came out of 101 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:07,620 my mother's womb asking big questions 102 00:04:11,899 --> 00:04:10,060 really really lucky that I grew up in a 103 00:04:14,940 --> 00:04:11,909 household with inquisitive parents 104 00:04:15,929 --> 00:04:14,950 although they did both carry have left 105 00:04:17,819 --> 00:04:15,939 brain positions 106 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:17,829 my mom was an educator high school 107 00:04:23,100 --> 00:04:19,810 educator my dad was an MIT scientist 108 00:04:24,810 --> 00:04:23,110 very left brained very normal if you 109 00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:24,820 will but when they sat down at the 110 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:26,889 kitchen table you know the discussion 111 00:04:32,339 --> 00:04:30,310 shifted very quickly to UFOs and 112 00:04:34,890 --> 00:04:32,349 reincarnation in life after death and 113 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:34,900 all of the the Orthodox religions as 114 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:37,330 well and they explored that and they 115 00:04:41,250 --> 00:04:39,849 invited me to the table literally to 116 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:41,260 participate as soon as I was old enough 117 00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:45,010 to do so that coupled with my own set of 118 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:46,750 let's call them anomalous experiences 119 00:04:52,409 --> 00:04:49,930 sort of just launched me on a course of 120 00:04:54,029 --> 00:04:52,419 natural inquiry which I think many of us 121 00:04:56,460 --> 00:04:54,039 have I think that's part of our journey 122 00:04:58,620 --> 00:04:56,470 I think the only difference with me and 123 00:05:00,360 --> 00:04:58,630 others like me and maybe everybody else 124 00:05:01,770 --> 00:05:00,370 who I believe all have some form of 125 00:05:05,750 --> 00:05:01,780 experience at some point in their lives 126 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:05,760 is I did not seek to shove it in a box 127 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:09,130 you know put it in context with 128 00:05:14,180 --> 00:05:10,810 something that I had been told but 129 00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:14,190 rather became determined to understand 130 00:05:18,210 --> 00:05:16,000 what is the true nature of reality 131 00:05:20,250 --> 00:05:18,220 really that's the big question for me 132 00:05:23,550 --> 00:05:20,260 and that's what really drives me what is 133 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:23,560 the true nature of reality what is this 134 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:25,510 that we're looking at here and then 135 00:05:29,850 --> 00:05:27,370 comes the question who was Alexis Brooks 136 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:29,860 who was Alex who's what is this and why 137 00:05:36,060 --> 00:05:32,530 are we here so I don't know if I'm 138 00:05:39,779 --> 00:05:36,070 talking in circles or not it's been life 139 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:39,789 long well it's you know it's when you 140 00:05:44,490 --> 00:05:42,250 say talk in circles it's like I think 141 00:05:46,140 --> 00:05:44,500 what you're really saying is man we 142 00:05:47,580 --> 00:05:46,150 could talk for an hour about that kind 143 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:47,590 of stuff because it's the most 144 00:05:51,300 --> 00:05:49,570 important stuff and I love the way you 145 00:05:53,730 --> 00:05:51,310 break it down I love the way you lead 146 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:53,740 into some of these things experience or 147 00:05:57,900 --> 00:05:55,690 I think is such an interesting topic 148 00:06:01,080 --> 00:05:57,910 because first off we have to talk about 149 00:06:02,790 --> 00:06:01,090 the kind of anomalous experiences that 150 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:02,800 you had as a kid people are gonna be 151 00:06:06,570 --> 00:06:05,200 interested in that so let's just kind of 152 00:06:08,190 --> 00:06:06,580 took out on the table as much as you 153 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:08,200 feel comfortable with what was happening 154 00:06:15,750 --> 00:06:11,650 to you well I'm gonna preface by saying 155 00:06:17,970 --> 00:06:15,760 in so far as I can remember my 156 00:06:19,950 --> 00:06:17,980 experiences were not I don't think 157 00:06:22,910 --> 00:06:19,960 unlike many others we're talking about 158 00:06:25,350 --> 00:06:22,920 things like precognition that was chief 159 00:06:27,990 --> 00:06:25,360 among the experiences that I would have 160 00:06:29,850 --> 00:06:28,000 dreams primarily of something that would 161 00:06:32,490 --> 00:06:29,860 invariably happen in the next day or so 162 00:06:35,610 --> 00:06:32,500 it was a collection of these things over 163 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:35,620 years that got me really pondering you 164 00:06:40,980 --> 00:06:39,370 know the idea of time what is time if 165 00:06:42,330 --> 00:06:40,990 I'm able to dream about something that 166 00:06:44,340 --> 00:06:42,340 invariably is gonna play out the next 167 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:44,350 day then am i understanding the concept 168 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:47,050 of time properly so that launched me 169 00:06:50,790 --> 00:06:49,450 into an investigation of that not 170 00:06:52,620 --> 00:06:50,800 immediately because these things were 171 00:06:58,230 --> 00:06:52,630 happening all of my life even as a kid 172 00:07:01,800 --> 00:06:58,240 but eventually I would say that 173 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:01,810 primarily my experiences were centered 174 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:08,110 in the dreamscape hearing messages it's 175 00:07:12,750 --> 00:07:09,610 very hard to explain because we're going 176 00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:12,760 we're talking about a scope of I'm not 177 00:07:20,310 --> 00:07:18,390 precognition I would have to say a 178 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:20,320 premonition would have to be the chief 179 00:07:26,190 --> 00:07:23,850 among them I can't say that I have seen 180 00:07:27,690 --> 00:07:26,200 ghostly apparitions you know we hear in 181 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:27,700 the more traditional sense people seeing 182 00:07:32,220 --> 00:07:29,290 something at the foot of their bed no I 183 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:32,230 can't say that I have experienced that 184 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:36,730 but I have seen subtle energy you know a 185 00:07:40,740 --> 00:07:38,890 scope of things Alex it's just so it's 186 00:07:44,130 --> 00:07:40,750 so hard to pinpoint let me ask you this 187 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:44,140 then yeah when did it start and then 188 00:07:47,790 --> 00:07:46,090 because I think it's really interesting 189 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:47,800 when you say these started at a young 190 00:07:52,500 --> 00:07:50,110 age and then the related question is 191 00:07:54,780 --> 00:07:52,510 what do you do with that I mean when you 192 00:07:57,990 --> 00:07:54,790 do with that it's at school you know 193 00:07:59,850 --> 00:07:58,000 fortunately the kitchen table you had he 194 00:08:00,640 --> 00:07:59,860 didn't maybe have to hide it so much but 195 00:08:03,909 --> 00:08:00,650 at the 196 00:08:06,159 --> 00:08:03,919 Thanksgiving table you know you know 197 00:08:09,460 --> 00:08:06,169 what do you it changes everything about 198 00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:09,470 your your your childhood right I suppose 199 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:12,560 but again I I've been asked that 200 00:08:15,939 --> 00:08:14,330 question before I think it was Jimmy 201 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:15,949 Church that asked that question and 202 00:08:18,850 --> 00:08:17,570 basically his question was did you feel 203 00:08:20,950 --> 00:08:18,860 a sense of inhibition when you were 204 00:08:22,420 --> 00:08:20,960 having these experiences and perhaps 205 00:08:26,110 --> 00:08:22,430 unable to talk about them well guess 206 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:26,120 what no I don't know why call me strange 207 00:08:31,300 --> 00:08:29,630 but I have welcomed you know bringing 208 00:08:33,370 --> 00:08:31,310 other people into my circle to talk 209 00:08:35,079 --> 00:08:33,380 about these things because I also had a 210 00:08:37,719 --> 00:08:35,089 sense and yes even at a young age that 211 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:37,729 other people were having these sorts of 212 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:40,130 experiences so I didn't feel any 213 00:08:43,659 --> 00:08:42,050 inhibition is insofar as I can remember 214 00:08:46,030 --> 00:08:43,669 being in school not that I necessarily 215 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:46,040 thought about it that much I mean these 216 00:08:48,910 --> 00:08:47,570 things weren't necessarily happening on 217 00:08:51,490 --> 00:08:48,920 a day to day basis but they were 218 00:08:53,949 --> 00:08:51,500 certainly happening enough where it 219 00:08:57,970 --> 00:08:53,959 raised a fundamental question for me 220 00:09:00,010 --> 00:08:57,980 what are we dealing with here I want to 221 00:09:02,410 --> 00:09:00,020 go back and you're causing me to reflect 222 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:02,420 on so many years ago certain experiences 223 00:09:06,730 --> 00:09:04,370 that I've had and I will tell you a 224 00:09:09,940 --> 00:09:06,740 couple that I recall outside of the 225 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:09,950 precut that the broader sort of ESP what 226 00:09:18,250 --> 00:09:13,490 we could broadly call ESP I recall 227 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:18,260 seeing a craft really at what age I want 228 00:09:22,510 --> 00:09:20,570 to say it was pre adolescent certainly 229 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:22,520 no more than you know maybe in the 230 00:09:29,590 --> 00:09:27,170 adolescent years 13 or so 12 13 my folks 231 00:09:32,170 --> 00:09:29,600 and I were I mean only child and my 232 00:09:34,660 --> 00:09:32,180 parents didn't fly they were afraid to 233 00:09:37,510 --> 00:09:34,670 fly interestingly and so everything we 234 00:09:42,130 --> 00:09:37,520 did was a road trip my mother being from 235 00:09:44,470 --> 00:09:42,140 Ohio we would take annual visits to Ohio 236 00:09:45,910 --> 00:09:44,480 we would drive and this is a vague 237 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:45,920 recollection this is why I have not 238 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:47,450 talked about it this much because a lot 239 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:48,910 of these things are just starting to 240 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:51,770 sort of crystallize in my memory now 241 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:53,570 which I'm finding with a lot of other 242 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:55,610 people by the way kind of triggers for 243 00:09:59,920 --> 00:09:58,130 remembering things but I have a vague 244 00:10:02,320 --> 00:09:59,930 recollection Alex of being in the 245 00:10:03,940 --> 00:10:02,330 backseat of the car it seemed as if we 246 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:03,950 were in close proximity we were closer 247 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:05,930 to Ohio than here where I am on the East 248 00:10:11,590 --> 00:10:07,370 Coast we're driving from the East Coast 249 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:11,600 and I had a recollection of seeing what 250 00:10:18,460 --> 00:10:14,450 appeared to be a cylindrical so 251 00:10:20,260 --> 00:10:18,470 / craft when I say cylindrical I'm 252 00:10:22,780 --> 00:10:20,270 looking at my microphone right now my 253 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:22,790 Yeti my blue Yeti microphone and they 254 00:10:28,450 --> 00:10:23,930 almost look like that 255 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:28,460 oblong but cylindrical I have a vague 256 00:10:34,300 --> 00:10:31,010 recollection of seeing it perhaps out of 257 00:10:39,340 --> 00:10:34,310 the right side of the window but also 258 00:10:42,070 --> 00:10:39,350 the back and I do not recall my parents 259 00:10:45,460 --> 00:10:42,080 reacting at all it seems as if I kept it 260 00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:45,470 to myself now as I'm telling you this I 261 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:47,360 have to I'm kind of taking myself there 262 00:10:54,010 --> 00:10:49,910 this is a very interesting dynamic with 263 00:10:55,180 --> 00:10:54,020 with recollection recalling something 264 00:10:56,740 --> 00:10:55,190 that happened many years ago and I 265 00:10:58,270 --> 00:10:56,750 really labored over this because I've 266 00:11:00,430 --> 00:10:58,280 asked myself okay Alexis are you 267 00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:00,440 imagining this is this coming from 268 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:02,630 somewhere deep in the recesses of your 269 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:04,010 mind or is this something that you heard 270 00:11:07,890 --> 00:11:05,330 somewhere else and you're bringing into 271 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:07,900 your experience all of us me being 272 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:10,490 called me a skeptic if you will call me 273 00:11:16,450 --> 00:11:13,850 pragmatic at a minimum you have to rule 274 00:11:18,850 --> 00:11:16,460 out every possible thing first we're 275 00:11:20,890 --> 00:11:18,860 still left brain people right but 276 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:20,900 there's something there evergreen that 277 00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:24,710 has never left me and that and I believe 278 00:11:28,990 --> 00:11:26,630 that experience and the more I put 279 00:11:30,910 --> 00:11:29,000 attention on it the clearer it gets I 280 00:11:35,290 --> 00:11:30,920 believe that's an experience that I can 281 00:11:37,420 --> 00:11:35,300 put in my my anomalous portfolio I'll 282 00:11:40,390 --> 00:11:37,430 tell you another if I may as it comes to 283 00:11:42,580 --> 00:11:40,400 me and this recollection did not come to 284 00:11:44,830 --> 00:11:42,590 me until I started researching what is 285 00:11:47,230 --> 00:11:44,840 called the shadow person phenomenon are 286 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:47,240 you familiar with that term I've worked 287 00:11:50,380 --> 00:11:48,890 with rosemary ellen guiley who's been a 288 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:50,390 friend of mine for many years I was 289 00:11:55,630 --> 00:11:52,010 actually in her book back in the 90s on 290 00:11:58,810 --> 00:11:55,640 dreams and she as many know is well 291 00:12:02,020 --> 00:11:58,820 researched in the field of anomalous 292 00:12:03,790 --> 00:12:02,030 phenomena particularly and that what 293 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:03,800 referred to a shadow being hat people 294 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:05,450 shadow people we have all these names 295 00:12:10,630 --> 00:12:08,810 that we have and also the Djinn shadow 296 00:12:13,330 --> 00:12:10,640 people for those in your audience that 297 00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:13,340 may not know are well they're described 298 00:12:17,050 --> 00:12:14,720 many ways but there seems to be a 299 00:12:19,090 --> 00:12:17,060 consensus of this very shadowy like 300 00:12:22,090 --> 00:12:19,100 silhouette like figure that will show up 301 00:12:24,460 --> 00:12:22,100 invariably in a room not always but 302 00:12:26,980 --> 00:12:24,470 oftentimes in a bedroom a threshold the 303 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:26,990 door sometimes they're wearing a hat 304 00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:27,450 some 305 00:12:31,850 --> 00:12:28,740 times they're not I mean they're a 306 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:31,860 variety of experiences but the common 307 00:12:37,550 --> 00:12:35,370 theme seems to be no features are seen 308 00:12:42,430 --> 00:12:37,560 it's just a shadow in the shape of an 309 00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:42,440 individual that will simply watch you 310 00:12:47,060 --> 00:12:45,480 know words I mean there's variations to 311 00:12:50,690 --> 00:12:47,070 this story but this is the common theme 312 00:12:52,430 --> 00:12:50,700 no words no assault although there have 313 00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:52,440 been some cases of that okay so this is 314 00:12:58,100 --> 00:12:55,980 a very very common phenomenon by the way 315 00:12:59,570 --> 00:12:58,110 I have surveyed I haven't done any 316 00:13:01,310 --> 00:12:59,580 formal surveys but I've talked to many 317 00:13:03,770 --> 00:13:01,320 many individuals who didn't even know 318 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:03,780 the name shadow person per se but would 319 00:13:10,220 --> 00:13:06,330 invariably describe a very similar 320 00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:10,230 account on a regular basis now in the 321 00:13:14,450 --> 00:13:12,360 course of the the research that I had 322 00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,460 been doing having rosemary ellen guiley 323 00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:16,560 on my show quite a few times to talk 324 00:13:21,470 --> 00:13:19,920 about this i had a vague recollection 325 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:21,480 here we go again 326 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:23,010 these triggers when you're doing your 327 00:13:26,780 --> 00:13:24,330 own research you start to say wait a 328 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:26,790 minute something's resonating here and I 329 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:29,850 have a recollection I know it was pre 13 330 00:13:35,540 --> 00:13:31,730 because we were still living in the 331 00:13:39,740 --> 00:13:35,550 Boston area right in Boston in fact in 332 00:13:43,310 --> 00:13:39,750 which I would be in my bedroom and a 333 00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:43,320 shadowy figure wearing a cloak almost 334 00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:45,720 like an African dashiki Believe It or 335 00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:49,440 Not would enter my room I don't remember 336 00:13:53,330 --> 00:13:52,560 any other details beyond that that's all 337 00:13:55,550 --> 00:13:53,340 I remember 338 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:55,560 but it wasn't until I started doing the 339 00:13:59,570 --> 00:13:57,330 research on this that through that the 340 00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:59,580 memory started to flood in oh my gosh I 341 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:02,160 think this fits the criteria of a shadow 342 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:05,850 person so there you go that's awesome 343 00:14:10,610 --> 00:14:08,610 and there's so many ways to go with that 344 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:10,620 and I'm tempted to jump in there and 345 00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:13,170 talk about those but there's a bunch of 346 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:14,790 other topics I want to talk about but 347 00:14:20,780 --> 00:14:18,210 before of that the one question I guess 348 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:20,790 I'd have for you on that is have you 349 00:14:29,270 --> 00:14:24,450 ever thought about or have any opinion 350 00:14:35,270 --> 00:14:29,280 as to why why why you why these set of 351 00:14:37,310 --> 00:14:35,280 experiences for you when they happened 352 00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:37,320 you know any thoughts about that 353 00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:40,320 especially with your precognition 354 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:42,510 great because you know where we're going 355 00:14:47,060 --> 00:14:44,880 with all that it does that resonate with 356 00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:47,070 you at all why you why that well you 357 00:14:51,170 --> 00:14:48,990 know I don't think that's the main 358 00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:51,180 question I've asked Alex with any of 359 00:14:57,770 --> 00:14:53,310 these things I think the question I have 360 00:15:01,400 --> 00:14:57,780 asked is why us as homo sapien sapien is 361 00:15:03,140 --> 00:15:01,410 there as I like to say loosely we 362 00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:03,150 obviously have skin in this game 363 00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:05,790 whatever phenomenon is going on broadly 364 00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:09,720 we must play a role in it so to answer 365 00:15:12,740 --> 00:15:10,800 your question I don't know if it's 366 00:15:16,220 --> 00:15:12,750 directly answering I don't know that the 367 00:15:19,610 --> 00:15:16,230 question for me was why me I think I 368 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:19,620 just somehow felt at an early age that 369 00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:22,890 this is this is really I say the 370 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:25,260 paranormal is a is a misnomer and it's 371 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:27,510 not an epiphenomena of reality this must 372 00:15:32,930 --> 00:15:29,610 be fundamentally what reality is but 373 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:32,940 what role do we as a species play in 374 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:35,970 this I totally get that but the you know 375 00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:37,980 the I think there is a parallel question 376 00:15:40,820 --> 00:15:38,310 there 377 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:40,830 what role does Alexis Brooks play in 378 00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:42,570 this why is she 379 00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:44,640 experiencing that in the backseat of the 380 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:47,460 car my mom and dad are the memory is 381 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:49,290 being screened out of their brightness 382 00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:52,770 you know very good question the whole 383 00:15:56,330 --> 00:15:54,990 thing we understand about ich t contact 384 00:15:59,210 --> 00:15:56,340 and we see the undeniable connection 385 00:16:01,880 --> 00:15:59,220 with intergenerational yes why 386 00:16:04,670 --> 00:16:01,890 absolutely genetic manipulation where 387 00:16:05,150 --> 00:16:04,680 are you going soul journey where are you 388 00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:05,160 going 389 00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:07,950 precognition choose your path choose 390 00:16:13,790 --> 00:16:10,740 your you know you had to have thought 391 00:16:15,710 --> 00:16:13,800 about some of these things at a young 392 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:15,720 age I would say no that was not a 393 00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:18,450 primary question for me however now of 394 00:16:25,940 --> 00:16:21,270 course the question arises but I have to 395 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:25,950 go back to the larger question what is 396 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:29,130 this reality comprised of what role do 397 00:16:32,330 --> 00:16:30,810 we play and here's the reason I'm not 398 00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:32,340 skirting the question just understand 399 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:35,880 where I'm coming from here I have a 400 00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,110 sense that experiences of all kind or 401 00:16:44,780 --> 00:16:42,480 ubiquitous I don't believe that anyone 402 00:16:46,460 --> 00:16:44,790 is necessarily singled out now clearly 403 00:16:48,380 --> 00:16:46,470 there are people that for whatever 404 00:16:50,210 --> 00:16:48,390 reason have more of a proclivity toward 405 00:16:52,250 --> 00:16:50,220 these experiences I've asked the 406 00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,260 question myself there are people it 407 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:54,720 seems that tend to magnetize these sorts 408 00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:56,250 of anomalous experiences where is that 409 00:17:03,260 --> 00:16:58,890 coming from I've asked the question but 410 00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:03,270 I do not have an answer my sense however 411 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:06,660 is that there may be some sort of a 412 00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:09,089 symbiotic relationship between us as the 413 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:11,400 experiencers and those and that which we 414 00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:13,530 are experiencing and that's what I'm 415 00:17:17,780 --> 00:17:15,270 exploring right now as a researcher I 416 00:17:19,220 --> 00:17:17,790 don't know yeah I joke with people all 417 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:19,230 the time as I get so many questions what 418 00:17:23,870 --> 00:17:20,610 does this mean what does that mean and I 419 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:23,880 will happily say not happily but I will 420 00:17:30,010 --> 00:17:26,610 definitively say I don't know and that 421 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:30,020 is the thing that I think we we must 422 00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:32,250 bless our hearts as human beings that 423 00:17:37,010 --> 00:17:33,720 want answers to so many things 424 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:37,020 be okay certainly ask the question but 425 00:17:40,820 --> 00:17:38,730 be okay with the possibility that you 426 00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:40,830 may not get a definitive answer in the 427 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:46,350 way you want it to be I say if I may add 428 00:17:49,130 --> 00:17:47,850 this because this is very important I 429 00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:49,140 mean I've been kind of rocking this 430 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:49,620 lately 431 00:17:57,820 --> 00:17:53,370 if you dare explore the true nature of 432 00:18:01,280 --> 00:17:57,830 reality humility is a universal mandate 433 00:18:04,670 --> 00:18:01,290 humility means saying I don't know and 434 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:04,680 being okay with it but it also means go 435 00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:06,090 ahead and ask the question and maybe 436 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:08,150 Universal meet you halfway eventually 437 00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:10,650 now that's a roundabout way of answering 438 00:18:13,610 --> 00:18:11,700 your question but that's how I'm 439 00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:13,620 approaching it right now I don't know 440 00:18:17,450 --> 00:18:14,670 but I'm gonna keep looking 441 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:17,460 I don't know why me awesome totally 442 00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:19,650 totally awesome let's so switch gears 443 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:24,630 because journalism is also something 444 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:26,730 you're very much about I mean you were 445 00:18:33,380 --> 00:18:30,510 extremely gifted at interviewing you get 446 00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:33,390 things out of people you package it in a 447 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:36,480 way you ask questions that are deep and 448 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:39,450 penetrating and don't just fly at a very 449 00:18:42,410 --> 00:18:40,410 high level 450 00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:42,420 you're also what you know you're a 451 00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:43,980 skilled journalist and a writer 452 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:47,220 again I'm not just like singing praises 453 00:18:53,150 --> 00:18:51,570 it's like go listen folks I listen to 454 00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:53,160 our dreams you listen these interviews 455 00:19:05,220 --> 00:19:02,030 sensibility that that talent that you've 456 00:19:08,669 --> 00:19:05,230 developed and obviously worked at 457 00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:08,679 what's that about for you well I I 458 00:19:12,419 --> 00:19:09,940 trained as a journalist I'm an 459 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:12,429 old-school journalist man I'll start 460 00:19:17,399 --> 00:19:14,850 with that I started in this business in 461 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:17,409 1986 don't don't tell anybody 462 00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,470 as in sports broadcasting so I was 463 00:19:23,879 --> 00:19:22,240 trained at mass communications major 464 00:19:26,129 --> 00:19:23,889 Northeastern University went through all 465 00:19:28,139 --> 00:19:26,139 the the rigors of that Suffolk 466 00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:28,149 University School of Journalism blah 467 00:19:33,419 --> 00:19:30,880 blah blah interestingly went into right 468 00:19:36,539 --> 00:19:33,429 into the main of entertainment you know 469 00:19:39,690 --> 00:19:36,549 got bit by the Hollywood bug did a stint 470 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:39,700 in a cable television directing and 471 00:19:45,539 --> 00:19:41,710 writing and a lot of voiceover work at 472 00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:45,549 Al so my my beginnings I cut my teeth in 473 00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:48,100 mainstream journalism and was fortunate 474 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:50,080 enough to work with some of the best of 475 00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:52,090 the best though I didn't work in hard 476 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:54,880 news journalism it was primarily a music 477 00:20:00,180 --> 00:19:57,970 and some some news but not not heavy 478 00:20:03,029 --> 00:20:00,190 news I got to work with some amazing 479 00:20:05,370 --> 00:20:03,039 people and really had some some 480 00:20:08,669 --> 00:20:05,380 wonderful mentors and really got a 481 00:20:10,379 --> 00:20:08,679 chance to sort of decide if I were going 482 00:20:13,379 --> 00:20:10,389 to take this side of the microphone how 483 00:20:15,389 --> 00:20:13,389 I would hone my craft now many years 484 00:20:17,279 --> 00:20:15,399 later and I've had I would say several 485 00:20:19,049 --> 00:20:17,289 professional incarnations since those 486 00:20:21,149 --> 00:20:19,059 beginnings working in areas that had 487 00:20:23,310 --> 00:20:21,159 nothing to do with journalism that 488 00:20:24,629 --> 00:20:23,320 marrying marrying the journalistic 489 00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:24,639 background that I've been trained in 490 00:20:30,539 --> 00:20:29,110 with the subjects that I adore that's 491 00:20:33,690 --> 00:20:30,549 why I think it works for me 492 00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:33,700 I just love it I just love what I'm 493 00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:35,470 talking about now if you had me talking 494 00:20:41,519 --> 00:20:38,169 about politics as an example 495 00:20:43,049 --> 00:20:41,529 eeeek no way and it's funny because I 496 00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:43,059 was involved in very politically 497 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:44,950 involved at some one point in my career 498 00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:49,450 but I think the key is have a thirst for 499 00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:51,760 the subjects for which you want to 500 00:20:58,799 --> 00:20:55,840 discuss have a natural curiosity again 501 00:21:01,710 --> 00:20:58,809 be willing to not know the answer be 502 00:21:03,779 --> 00:21:01,720 inquisitive we couldn't be talking about 503 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:03,789 things more exciting so that's what 504 00:21:09,799 --> 00:21:06,370 drives me and the guests of course and 505 00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:09,809 the the the opportunity for discovery so 506 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:11,350 that's awesome 507 00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:13,510 let me put a little bit of an edge on it 508 00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:17,260 do you ever sit back and look at where 509 00:21:22,779 --> 00:21:18,830 mainstream 510 00:21:24,460 --> 00:21:22,789 is where journalism is I mean Jews gave 511 00:21:26,110 --> 00:21:24,470 kind of an example that hey you're 512 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:26,120 following your passion you're following 513 00:21:31,019 --> 00:21:27,770 these stories because they are your 514 00:21:34,180 --> 00:21:31,029 passion but another way to look at it is 515 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:34,190 you're in an Eyes Wide Shut kind of 516 00:21:40,389 --> 00:21:37,970 world you know I mean who who turn on 517 00:21:43,299 --> 00:21:40,399 Good Morning America or the nightly news 518 00:21:45,789 --> 00:21:43,309 who could cover the topics that you're 519 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:45,799 covering even if they were an assignment 520 00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:47,330 if they were totally go out and do it 521 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:51,110 they crave it and that's really a stark 522 00:21:55,690 --> 00:21:53,570 contrast that we have to kind of fully 523 00:21:58,659 --> 00:21:55,700 swallow them it's awesome that you bring 524 00:22:01,570 --> 00:21:58,669 the skill set but mainstream media is 525 00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:01,580 just out completely out of the loop on 526 00:22:09,610 --> 00:22:05,679 this stuff you know what M stands for 527 00:22:12,970 --> 00:22:09,620 muzzle yeah right right you want to go 528 00:22:14,769 --> 00:22:12,980 there I mean come on Alex I think we all 529 00:22:16,930 --> 00:22:14,779 know there's this there's no secret here 530 00:22:18,340 --> 00:22:16,940 that and in Mike having come from the 531 00:22:23,230 --> 00:22:18,350 mainstream media although it wasn't hard 532 00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:23,240 news clearly there is some semblance 533 00:22:30,220 --> 00:22:26,270 I'll say conservatively of an agenda to 534 00:22:33,130 --> 00:22:30,230 keep the stories where they want them 535 00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:33,140 keep the narrative tight I noticed 536 00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:34,640 something interesting maybe I'm going 537 00:22:37,930 --> 00:22:36,110 maybe I'm digressing a little bit but I 538 00:22:40,750 --> 00:22:37,940 do think this is important to understand 539 00:22:43,330 --> 00:22:40,760 the architecture or the infrastructure 540 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:43,340 of mainstream media certainly as long as 541 00:22:49,090 --> 00:22:45,770 I've been in it and how that how it is 542 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:49,100 not designed what they purport for it to 543 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:51,710 be designed to do to inform people it's 544 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:56,450 doing anything but in forming something 545 00:23:00,430 --> 00:22:57,890 kind of interesting in just my being 546 00:23:05,019 --> 00:23:00,440 aware when I was in radio this was back 547 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:05,029 in the early 90s and I recalled we had 548 00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:06,890 something called stop sets back in the 549 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:08,240 day maybe they still call them stop set 550 00:23:11,169 --> 00:23:09,770 stops it's are essentially when the 551 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:11,179 music ends you go into a set of 552 00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:13,570 commercials you know maybe three or four 553 00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:15,950 three three 60-second commercials to 554 00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:17,809 30-second and a couple of what we call 555 00:23:26,019 --> 00:23:24,020 liners and I would recall that the stop 556 00:23:27,610 --> 00:23:26,029 sets the commercials that were running 557 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:27,620 well not so much that the the 558 00:23:31,389 --> 00:23:29,450 commercials that were running but if you 559 00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:31,399 go from one station to another to 560 00:23:34,769 --> 00:23:32,200 another 561 00:23:37,649 --> 00:23:34,779 this day they all take stock sets at 562 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:37,659 about the same time have you ever 563 00:23:42,509 --> 00:23:39,730 noticed that this still this still 564 00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:42,519 happens if you peruse your your 565 00:23:49,919 --> 00:23:45,760 television your TV let's say it's a six 566 00:23:53,159 --> 00:23:49,929 o'clock news and you go from NBC to ABC 567 00:23:54,750 --> 00:23:53,169 the CBS I guarantee you more times than 568 00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:54,760 not sometimes there's some exceptions 569 00:23:59,639 --> 00:23:56,950 they're all taking breaks at the same 570 00:24:01,560 --> 00:23:59,649 time there's a pattern that's inherent 571 00:24:04,879 --> 00:24:01,570 throughout the spectrum of these these 572 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:04,889 these channels why is that 573 00:24:09,299 --> 00:24:07,570 now I'm sure they could give you another 574 00:24:11,310 --> 00:24:09,309 explanation technically speaking why 575 00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:11,320 they have to be in sync timing and you 576 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:12,880 know how much the how long the broadcast 577 00:24:18,750 --> 00:24:15,490 lasts but I noticed that there was an 578 00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:18,760 agreement I many years ago that there 579 00:24:23,009 --> 00:24:20,559 was some sort of an agreement that 580 00:24:25,289 --> 00:24:23,019 everyone must follow the same pattern 581 00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:25,299 not only with the stop sets but with the 582 00:24:31,889 --> 00:24:29,230 content right right and then dig a 583 00:24:34,820 --> 00:24:31,899 little bit deeper and you find that the 584 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:34,830 content is predicated on on an agenda 585 00:24:39,419 --> 00:24:36,970 essentially I don't know if I want to go 586 00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:39,429 any deeper than that but what I implore 587 00:24:43,139 --> 00:24:41,470 people to do whenever you know we're 588 00:24:44,639 --> 00:24:43,149 getting into the big c-word right I 589 00:24:45,870 --> 00:24:44,649 don't know if I'm allowed to say that I 590 00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:45,880 try not to say it but you know what I'm 591 00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:46,799 talking about 592 00:24:54,110 --> 00:24:50,230 the master nations of our media 593 00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:54,120 I implore people to be aware of patterns 594 00:24:58,019 --> 00:24:56,289 whenever you question something don't 595 00:24:59,490 --> 00:24:58,029 don't go running listening to me or 596 00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:59,500 anyone else saying this is what's going 597 00:25:03,899 --> 00:25:01,360 on that's what's going on be aware of 598 00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:03,909 patterns you start to see patterns of 599 00:25:09,210 --> 00:25:06,510 things happening and things are revealed 600 00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:09,220 something's going on here and for me it 601 00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:10,870 was many years ago and something as 602 00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:13,480 benign is looking how stop sets were 603 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:16,480 organized between channels you take that 604 00:25:21,659 --> 00:25:18,970 all the way to now and other patterns 605 00:25:24,539 --> 00:25:21,669 that are really quite transparent to me 606 00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:24,549 and you know that invariably you're 607 00:25:29,269 --> 00:25:27,039 getting something that is constructed 608 00:25:32,009 --> 00:25:29,279 for a reason other than what we're told 609 00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:32,019 this is why those journalists bless 610 00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:33,820 their hearts couldn't or wouldn't cover 611 00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:37,000 this sort of thing they can't and 612 00:25:40,139 --> 00:25:38,049 there's a muzzle 613 00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:40,149 yeah I mean I think that's really 614 00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:42,159 interesting and a bunch of people as we 615 00:25:49,620 --> 00:25:45,550 know have done it expose this you can go 616 00:25:51,780 --> 00:25:49,630 of the the story that's coming out 617 00:25:53,670 --> 00:25:51,790 that's being constructed and then you'll 618 00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:53,680 see it simultaneously being played 619 00:25:58,440 --> 00:25:55,630 across the country yet quote-unquote 620 00:26:00,900 --> 00:25:58,450 local stations local server and they're 621 00:26:03,030 --> 00:26:00,910 just parroting these talking points 622 00:26:05,370 --> 00:26:03,040 throughout and you're like you know oh 623 00:26:08,130 --> 00:26:05,380 my god it's it's so obvious it's your 624 00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:08,140 point though I and I think you that it's 625 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:09,310 really quite brilliant what you're 626 00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:12,930 saying there of you know if we are 627 00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:15,760 responsible for being our own 628 00:26:18,570 --> 00:26:17,830 researchers our own investigative 629 00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:18,580 journalists 630 00:26:24,060 --> 00:26:20,800 you've given us a great tip there in 631 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:24,070 terms of look at the pattern start on 632 00:26:28,650 --> 00:26:26,530 that pattern matching thing so you know 633 00:26:32,610 --> 00:26:28,660 where to go and you know where to dive 634 00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:32,620 deeper so let's apply that then because 635 00:26:38,910 --> 00:26:35,620 we've just kind of jumped into the end 636 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:38,920 of the soup here and said no one is 637 00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:41,290 covering this and and in that goes to 638 00:26:46,830 --> 00:26:44,080 fold like I was saying one there's two 639 00:26:48,990 --> 00:26:46,840 fold part of it one is the muzzle but 640 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:49,000 the other is at this point they couldn't 641 00:26:56,010 --> 00:26:52,450 cover it you couldn't assign one of 642 00:27:01,140 --> 00:26:56,020 those people whoever you want to pick 643 00:27:03,210 --> 00:27:01,150 out of out of the the group there they 644 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:03,220 couldn't cover it they wouldn't yeah not 645 00:27:05,790 --> 00:27:04,330 only wouldn't they cover it because 646 00:27:06,990 --> 00:27:05,800 they're muzzled but they couldn't cover 647 00:27:08,730 --> 00:27:07,000 it because they don't have the 648 00:27:10,860 --> 00:27:08,740 capability it's a different skill set 649 00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:10,870 Alex it's a completely different skill 650 00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:13,030 set again be aware look at the 651 00:27:16,650 --> 00:27:14,950 individuals take care take your typical 652 00:27:18,690 --> 00:27:16,660 local news and let's say you're you're 653 00:27:19,950 --> 00:27:18,700 looking and we used to call them on the 654 00:27:22,110 --> 00:27:19,960 beat reporters people that are out in 655 00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:22,120 the field you will notice that 656 00:27:26,370 --> 00:27:24,640 everything from their posture and the 657 00:27:27,540 --> 00:27:26,380 way they sort of bounce there's certain 658 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:27,550 things that you can look at their 659 00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:30,850 appearance the way their the cadence and 660 00:27:34,410 --> 00:27:33,070 their voice you know we have a station 661 00:27:36,990 --> 00:27:34,420 here I'm gonna say if anyone's listening 662 00:27:40,410 --> 00:27:37,000 from from the Boston area we have a 663 00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:40,420 local station NECN and I'm so funny as 664 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:42,910 an old-school journalist I'm not so 665 00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:44,290 harsh with these people and I'm cheering 666 00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,430 for them I want them to do their best 667 00:27:49,050 --> 00:27:47,440 now I'm just talking about you know 668 00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:49,060 things that are these are completely 669 00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:51,990 benign but everything that they do is 670 00:27:58,060 --> 00:27:54,880 it's it's not only scripted there's a 671 00:28:00,860 --> 00:27:58,070 certain you know style that they're told 672 00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:00,870 exactly so there's this woman that says 673 00:28:06,740 --> 00:28:03,150 um so we'll call her Lisa Jones this is 674 00:28:07,490 --> 00:28:06,750 Lisa Jones reporting from NECN versus 675 00:28:10,370 --> 00:28:07,500 NECN 676 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:10,380 so I know and you can tell that she is 677 00:28:15,650 --> 00:28:13,170 being coached in every aspect of what 678 00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:15,660 she does including the way in including 679 00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:16,980 the way she delivers the story and 680 00:28:22,820 --> 00:28:19,470 certainly the content of the story so 681 00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,830 these are script readers Alex these are 682 00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:24,480 not good god bless them there's some 683 00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:26,220 there are some good mainstream 684 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:27,840 journalists out there by the way I'm not 685 00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:29,970 saying at all that they're all just you 686 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:32,220 know hopeless I think they're few and 687 00:28:35,090 --> 00:28:33,690 far between unfortunately because I 688 00:28:39,620 --> 00:28:35,100 think the criteria has has changed 689 00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:39,630 drastically but but what we're talking 690 00:28:44,570 --> 00:28:41,700 about here the subjects that we are 691 00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:44,580 attempting to understand ourselves and 692 00:28:50,540 --> 00:28:46,980 to articulate to our larger audience are 693 00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:50,550 hard enough for us you have to have skin 694 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:52,140 in the game to be able to do this I 695 00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:53,970 don't think you can just report this out 696 00:28:59,900 --> 00:28:56,880 of context so I will repeat I think it's 697 00:29:02,630 --> 00:28:59,910 a completely different skill set I'm 698 00:29:05,030 --> 00:29:02,640 just gonna say there's a skill set but 699 00:29:06,110 --> 00:29:05,040 there's also this base of knowledge at 700 00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:06,120 this point 701 00:29:11,630 --> 00:29:09,030 Alexis you have accumulated this huge 702 00:29:13,490 --> 00:29:11,640 base of knowledge that you can draw from 703 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:13,500 and you do in your interviews and you 704 00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:16,290 are comparing and contrasting and 705 00:29:19,130 --> 00:29:17,640 sharing that with your guest you're 706 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:19,140 saying well I understand that's your 707 00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:22,290 position but are you aware of being 708 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:24,480 hybrids and are you aware of this 709 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:26,730 research or that research if you don't 710 00:29:32,210 --> 00:29:29,250 have that knowledge base you can't 711 00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:32,220 conduct the interview that way and I 712 00:29:36,140 --> 00:29:34,080 think so much of what we're seeing when 713 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:36,150 we see mainstream media and the 714 00:29:40,370 --> 00:29:38,370 crossover from me is in science 715 00:29:42,350 --> 00:29:40,380 journalism because I interview a lot of 716 00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,360 scientists and they're hamstrung in the 717 00:29:47,570 --> 00:29:44,640 same way you know they're they're kind 718 00:29:51,260 --> 00:29:47,580 of locked into talking in a certain way 719 00:29:54,110 --> 00:29:51,270 to a certain group that has to toe a 720 00:29:56,710 --> 00:29:54,120 certain line absolutely get into talking 721 00:29:58,700 --> 00:29:56,720 about well of course this ridiculous 722 00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:58,710 consciousness is an illusion you are a 723 00:30:02,299 --> 00:30:00,720 biological robot of course that doesn't 724 00:30:04,669 --> 00:30:02,309 make any sense and of course everything 725 00:30:06,140 --> 00:30:04,679 you said about that is is ridiculous and 726 00:30:08,570 --> 00:30:06,150 absurd and we know it and just because 727 00:30:09,980 --> 00:30:08,580 you go to your conferences and everyone 728 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:09,990 at the conference is nodding your head 729 00:30:12,890 --> 00:30:11,370 it doesn't mean that all the 730 00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:12,900 of us think any of that makes any sense 731 00:30:16,790 --> 00:30:14,940 we all think it's totally absurd you 732 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:16,800 know and I think the same thing happens 733 00:30:21,950 --> 00:30:19,290 with journalism and you don't have that 734 00:30:23,630 --> 00:30:21,960 opportunity to say that directly to 735 00:30:26,390 --> 00:30:23,640 these journalists but I think you're 736 00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:26,400 saying it almost indirectly in these 737 00:30:32,150 --> 00:30:29,880 interviews in terms of we know that no 738 00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:32,160 one else can handle these topics that 739 00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:33,540 we're never going to be able to see 740 00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:36,720 these topics on anything approaching a 741 00:30:43,549 --> 00:30:39,270 mainstream perspective in any way that 742 00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:43,559 that makes any sense mm-hmm you said a 743 00:30:48,890 --> 00:30:46,110 lot there and as I'm as I'm listening to 744 00:30:50,030 --> 00:30:48,900 you I mean we're doing a contrast in 745 00:30:51,970 --> 00:30:50,040 comparison we're looking at polar 746 00:30:55,430 --> 00:30:51,980 opposites in terms of content 747 00:30:57,230 --> 00:30:55,440 proliferation you got a look at this 748 00:30:58,820 --> 00:30:57,240 larger subject that we call the 749 00:31:00,560 --> 00:30:58,830 consciousness movement there's that 750 00:31:02,750 --> 00:31:00,570 other C word consciousness right of 751 00:31:04,510 --> 00:31:02,760 which none of us fully understand what 752 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:04,520 it is and we need to be humble in that 753 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:08,130 but as all of these subjects falling 754 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:10,770 under the broader umbrella of I say 755 00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:12,690 reality I prefer to say the true nature 756 00:31:18,140 --> 00:31:15,950 of reality as this these subjects 757 00:31:21,650 --> 00:31:18,150 burgeon and continue to burgeon with 758 00:31:25,810 --> 00:31:21,660 which they have what I'm seeing and what 759 00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:25,820 I get a sense of is a slow decline of 760 00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:29,670 mainstream media period well I wonder if 761 00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:32,190 there will be mainstream media as we 762 00:31:37,850 --> 00:31:34,559 understand it to be in another couple of 763 00:31:40,370 --> 00:31:37,860 decades maybe less so I'm I'm less 764 00:31:43,549 --> 00:31:40,380 focused on the polarity of all of this 765 00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:43,559 that them versus us and I'm looking at a 766 00:31:49,850 --> 00:31:46,910 paradigm shift I think slow but 767 00:31:51,140 --> 00:31:49,860 definitive so that I think the 768 00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:51,150 conversation is going to change 769 00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:53,070 completely I think they're just becoming 770 00:31:59,720 --> 00:31:56,640 less relevant frankly now obviously we 771 00:32:01,549 --> 00:31:59,730 know particularly insofar as the UFO 772 00:32:03,770 --> 00:32:01,559 that you fought the field of ufology is 773 00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:03,780 concerned we're starting to get what 774 00:32:10,580 --> 00:32:06,270 we're calling the slowed drip drip drip 775 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:10,590 of media coverage a little bit in the 776 00:32:16,370 --> 00:32:13,170 mainstream first it was with a heavy 777 00:32:18,380 --> 00:32:16,380 dose of tongue-in-cheek now it's a 778 00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:18,390 little bit of a pinch if you've noticed 779 00:32:24,290 --> 00:32:21,270 it's starting to get a little bit more 780 00:32:26,290 --> 00:32:24,300 serious so it's interesting something is 781 00:32:30,550 --> 00:32:26,300 trying to creep its way in and perhaps 782 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:30,560 acclimate a larger group of people to 783 00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:33,570 this reality so that's interesting too 784 00:32:38,060 --> 00:32:36,720 what's going on there I don't know well 785 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:38,070 I think there's a lot to talk about 786 00:32:43,670 --> 00:32:40,530 there and let's dive into it since you 787 00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:43,680 okay that topic area because one of the 788 00:32:48,410 --> 00:32:45,390 challenges and I actually want to talk 789 00:32:51,710 --> 00:32:48,420 about UFO journalism and I want to talk 790 00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:51,720 about consciousness journalism because I 791 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:53,460 think there's parallels but I think of 792 00:32:57,170 --> 00:32:55,650 some huge differences too in terms of 793 00:32:59,960 --> 00:32:57,180 how we talk about these subjects and 794 00:33:02,390 --> 00:32:59,970 these are two subjects that you dive 795 00:33:04,130 --> 00:33:02,400 into with your interviews so you know 796 00:33:06,860 --> 00:33:04,140 just to let people know when I talk 797 00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:06,870 about consciousness journalism you talk 798 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:09,360 about near-death experience you talk 799 00:33:14,210 --> 00:33:11,970 about consciousness transformation you 800 00:33:17,660 --> 00:33:14,220 talk about all these things that people 801 00:33:21,710 --> 00:33:17,670 who are not interested in UFOs but are 802 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:21,720 interested in consciousness would find 803 00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,570 interesting but then you also do cover 804 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:26,880 more or less you can't say a mainstream 805 00:33:33,290 --> 00:33:30,690 UFO thing because dream but you're over 806 00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:33,300 in that area too so if we were going to 807 00:33:38,030 --> 00:33:35,190 talk about UFO journalism I guess one of 808 00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:38,040 the things that I wanted to put on the 809 00:33:42,770 --> 00:33:40,740 table and get your thoughts on is you 810 00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:42,780 have a unique challenge in that area in 811 00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:46,110 dealing with the whole disinfo miss info 812 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:49,200 thing I mean again it's interesting to 813 00:33:52,970 --> 00:33:50,970 compare it and contrast it with 814 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:52,980 mainstream media because really the 815 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:54,810 difference is that's all miss info there 816 00:33:58,520 --> 00:33:56,250 I mean they don't even know it they're 817 00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,530 just reading the scripts you at least 818 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:00,240 it's on the table at least you're like 819 00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:04,650 hey am I being used here to send out a 820 00:34:11,050 --> 00:34:06,750 particular message because this is 821 00:34:14,930 --> 00:34:11,060 certainly the history of UFO community 822 00:34:17,060 --> 00:34:14,940 UFO reporting how do you sort through 823 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:17,070 that what are your thoughts on that and 824 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:19,290 how do you deal with it well first of 825 00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:21,210 all I want to just say for the record 826 00:34:27,260 --> 00:34:24,390 you know we've said so many times Alex I 827 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:27,270 load the load labels mean I don't like 828 00:34:32,630 --> 00:34:29,970 using them UFO is one of them et is 829 00:34:35,150 --> 00:34:32,640 another all of these words that have 830 00:34:38,180 --> 00:34:35,160 connotations that I think are broadly 831 00:34:41,379 --> 00:34:38,190 misleading my entry point into 832 00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:41,389 what we call the field of ufology is 833 00:34:47,779 --> 00:34:44,940 based on the experience all the human 834 00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:47,789 consciousness aspect I've made no bones 835 00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:49,200 about that from the beginning in fact 836 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:51,839 out of all the subjects that we could 837 00:34:57,289 --> 00:34:53,970 broadly call and I will say it 838 00:34:59,930 --> 00:34:57,299 paranormal or meta normal the UFO 839 00:35:03,049 --> 00:34:59,940 subject was probably had I had the least 840 00:35:06,319 --> 00:35:03,059 interest in until I began to explore the 841 00:35:09,559 --> 00:35:06,329 experiential aspect when it has having 842 00:35:12,319 --> 00:35:09,569 to do with our own contact experiences 843 00:35:13,940 --> 00:35:12,329 and thus the journey began I I'm still 844 00:35:16,490 --> 00:35:13,950 trying to recall when I even entered 845 00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:16,500 hell what was the the specific impetus 846 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:19,049 for my wanting to discuss this on this 847 00:35:22,099 --> 00:35:20,490 show and I can't recall I don't know 848 00:35:23,049 --> 00:35:22,109 that there was maybe it was a request I 849 00:35:26,539 --> 00:35:23,059 don't know 850 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:26,549 so just freely it's up for people 851 00:35:31,309 --> 00:35:29,490 because sometimes we kind of it gets 852 00:35:34,130 --> 00:35:31,319 into inside baseball without even 853 00:35:37,069 --> 00:35:34,140 meaning so sure the UFO community is 854 00:35:40,279 --> 00:35:37,079 kind of as its formed is kind of 855 00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:40,289 bouncing along in this kind of you MUFON 856 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:43,140 centric you know what are the landings 857 00:35:48,319 --> 00:35:45,690 how fast did they move what were the 858 00:35:50,990 --> 00:35:48,329 sightings nuts and rules mechanistic us 859 00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:51,000 absolutely exactly and it's dominated by 860 00:35:55,460 --> 00:35:53,640 a lot of men who are kind of engineering 861 00:35:57,140 --> 00:35:55,470 oriented nothing wrong with this it's 862 00:35:58,940 --> 00:35:57,150 just who they are you know and it's kind 863 00:36:02,620 --> 00:35:58,950 of engineering oriented and it's Air 864 00:36:07,940 --> 00:36:02,630 Force military and shooting facility and 865 00:36:10,730 --> 00:36:07,950 it starts to be this second flank if you 866 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:10,740 will and it's the jacques valet and and 867 00:36:16,099 --> 00:36:14,490 I interviewed Jacques Vallee and Stanton 868 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:16,109 Friedman and I think even those men 869 00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:18,450 Freeman is who recently passed was 870 00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:20,910 awesome guy but you know was always 871 00:36:23,630 --> 00:36:22,380 associated with the nuts and bolts I 872 00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:23,640 think there were a lot of people that 873 00:36:28,970 --> 00:36:25,710 were always crossing over but the 874 00:36:32,839 --> 00:36:28,980 dominant message was always we have to 875 00:36:35,150 --> 00:36:32,849 look at the physical engineering kind of 876 00:36:37,309 --> 00:36:35,160 part and then this recent wave that you 877 00:36:40,370 --> 00:36:37,319 have been very much part of and have 878 00:36:43,579 --> 00:36:40,380 brought some tremendous guests forward 879 00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:43,589 to talk about has been this second hey 880 00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:46,079 guys maybe we ought to talk to the 881 00:36:51,049 --> 00:36:49,440 people who are having yes because 882 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:51,059 there's even crossover there you know I 883 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:52,050 just interviewed 884 00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:55,770 Kevin day who was one of the Air Force 885 00:37:01,370 --> 00:36:58,560 men nor was he Navy one of the Navy guys 886 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:01,380 who was part of that tic-tac disclosure 887 00:37:07,359 --> 00:37:04,050 thing they come out in December 2017 and 888 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:07,369 he has an experience just by observing 889 00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:12,210 the phenomenon absolutely and he has the 890 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:15,119 valet Davis kind of effect so you know 891 00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:17,090 bless the people like you who've said 892 00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:20,400 there's an experiential part of this and 893 00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:24,000 the experiential part even crosses over 894 00:37:28,910 --> 00:37:26,760 with the observational part you know 895 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:28,920 question it's cool that that you've 896 00:37:35,590 --> 00:37:31,170 drawn us into that conversation so 897 00:37:37,370 --> 00:37:35,600 please pick up and continue okay well 898 00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:37,380 you know it's interesting you were 899 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:39,119 talking about the individual he said was 900 00:37:43,340 --> 00:37:41,130 it Kevin Davis he just said Kevin well 901 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:43,350 there's the valet Davis effects where 902 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:46,290 they say you know if you like Kevin day 903 00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:48,930 was the guy Dan he was the guy who was 904 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:49,740 on board 905 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:53,970 you know the Nimitz thing that's the UFO 906 00:37:58,190 --> 00:37:56,130 right and he was the guy who was the Top 907 00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:58,200 Gun guy and he goes all's he does is go 908 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:00,000 up on top of the deck and say let me see 909 00:38:03,650 --> 00:38:01,290 if I can see these things through the 910 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:03,660 big binoculars and he goes right and he 911 00:38:09,290 --> 00:38:06,690 raises him up to his head and he has an 912 00:38:13,010 --> 00:38:09,300 experience and after that experience he 913 00:38:14,510 --> 00:38:13,020 has you know a lot of experience or kind 914 00:38:16,660 --> 00:38:14,520 of things like he's going to the VA and 915 00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:16,670 they go oh you got PTSD and he goes huh 916 00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:19,440 not really something's going on and then 917 00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:21,150 somebody tells him well there's this guy 918 00:38:24,410 --> 00:38:22,830 shock delay and Davis and they 919 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:24,420 discovered that you know people who have 920 00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,130 experience have a lot of these symptoms 921 00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,560 and he goes boom boom boom you know pre 922 00:38:31,790 --> 00:38:30,480 conscious normal experiences boom boom 923 00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:31,800 boom all these things are being checked 924 00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:34,200 off and again I just I brought that up 925 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:36,000 because I think it's a classic example 926 00:38:41,870 --> 00:38:39,210 of where we've developed these two camps 927 00:38:43,970 --> 00:38:41,880 you know that's right go ahead 928 00:38:45,410 --> 00:38:43,980 let me bring something up in that regard 929 00:38:47,330 --> 00:38:45,420 because this is some information that I 930 00:38:49,099 --> 00:38:47,340 recently procured from a colleague of 931 00:38:50,690 --> 00:38:49,109 mine and and maybe we can talk about the 932 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:50,700 the lecture that I gave in Australia 933 00:38:55,550 --> 00:38:53,130 having to do with 934 00:38:56,750 --> 00:38:55,560 contact on a much broader scale but 935 00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:56,760 interesting that you mentioned that this 936 00:39:00,830 --> 00:38:58,890 gentleman feels that he has he had an 937 00:39:03,020 --> 00:39:00,840 experience in addition to just citing or 938 00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:03,030 seeing something but here's some 939 00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:04,110 statistics that I think your audience 940 00:39:09,610 --> 00:39:07,440 may find very interesting and we're 941 00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:09,620 hoping that these are accurate but 942 00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:13,260 essentially worldwide now alex sightings 943 00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:16,310 are reported about every eight seconds 944 00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:19,260 in addition to that this is worldwide 945 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:21,060 every eight seconds so these are just 946 00:39:24,730 --> 00:39:23,850 reported sightings here's the 947 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:24,740 interesting thing 948 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:27,810 sightings that last a minimum of eight 949 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:30,690 minutes may actually be more than just 950 00:39:36,590 --> 00:39:33,810 sightings I don't know what the criteria 951 00:39:38,180 --> 00:39:36,600 was for developing this but it is said 952 00:39:40,490 --> 00:39:38,190 that sightings that last a minimum of 953 00:39:44,330 --> 00:39:40,500 eight minutes may actually be abductions 954 00:39:48,380 --> 00:39:44,340 as well these are sustained sightings of 955 00:39:50,570 --> 00:39:48,390 craft where individuals may and I stress 956 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:50,580 may actually be having an interaction 957 00:39:58,010 --> 00:39:53,610 with the occupants of the craft not just 958 00:40:01,000 --> 00:39:58,020 visually seeing it 36% of the key 959 00:40:04,370 --> 00:40:01,010 witnesses that were taken in this sample 960 00:40:06,740 --> 00:40:04,380 saw a craft more than eight minutes two 961 00:40:10,850 --> 00:40:06,750 percent within 150 yards this was all 962 00:40:13,460 --> 00:40:10,860 calculated and based on 2018 specs what 963 00:40:15,860 --> 00:40:13,470 it's telling me here is that now maybe 964 00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:15,870 I'm gonna use this as a craft craft II 965 00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:19,470 pun intended segue but something's 966 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:21,270 happening where more people I think may 967 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:24,450 be having experiences directly with 968 00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:27,570 non-human intelligence and we think this 969 00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:28,830 is interesting 970 00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,750 in it I want it I wanted to pick up on 971 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:32,160 this because of the individual that you 972 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:33,930 mentioned in the context in which his 973 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:36,050 story came up is that same as Tic Tac 974 00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:39,210 tic video and and of course there's more 975 00:40:45,110 --> 00:40:41,040 that's been coming out as we know 976 00:40:48,170 --> 00:40:45,120 recently the convergence between the 977 00:40:51,620 --> 00:40:48,180 mechanistic aspects of the field of UFOs 978 00:40:55,490 --> 00:40:51,630 and the experiential is in your face 979 00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:55,500 right now what once just looked to be a 980 00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:57,660 craft sighting maybe more than a craft 981 00:41:03,620 --> 00:41:01,440 sighting there is an experiential aspect 982 00:41:05,630 --> 00:41:03,630 that I don't think we're long going to 983 00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:05,640 be able much longer going to be able to 984 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:06,730 ignore 985 00:41:13,410 --> 00:41:09,250 the convergence of the two must 986 00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:13,420 eventually happen is is as hard as some 987 00:41:19,620 --> 00:41:15,520 in the camp but may try to keep the 988 00:41:20,310 --> 00:41:19,630 focus on you know unearthing in reverse 989 00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:20,320 engineering 990 00:41:25,650 --> 00:41:23,710 alien technology and either trying to 991 00:41:27,660 --> 00:41:25,660 keep this you know as my friend Linda 992 00:41:31,970 --> 00:41:27,670 Moulton Howe says the policies of lies 993 00:41:34,590 --> 00:41:31,980 and secrecy alive or tear them apart 994 00:41:36,030 --> 00:41:34,600 there is more to this story than that 995 00:41:38,670 --> 00:41:36,040 and we've got to get our arms around 996 00:41:40,020 --> 00:41:38,680 that that's not to preclude the things 997 00:41:42,210 --> 00:41:40,030 that are being discussed here in terms 998 00:41:44,580 --> 00:41:42,220 of the mechanistic lights in the sky and 999 00:41:46,290 --> 00:41:44,590 dead alien bodies etc this is not my 1000 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:46,300 bailiwick by the way and I have no 1001 00:41:50,010 --> 00:41:48,130 problem saying that I try to stay on the 1002 00:41:53,099 --> 00:41:50,020 periphery of that so I can at least know 1003 00:41:54,930 --> 00:41:53,109 what's going on but there is no doubt an 1004 00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:54,940 intersection point between the 1005 00:42:01,740 --> 00:41:58,240 experiencial and the of just the 1006 00:42:03,690 --> 00:42:01,750 observed that has to be dealt with and I 1007 00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:03,700 think we're seeing that by default just 1008 00:42:08,370 --> 00:42:06,390 in the people that I talked to who are 1009 00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:08,380 experiences that thought there were just 1010 00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:10,510 witnesses at one point does that make 1011 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:12,609 any sense to you oh well totally because 1012 00:42:18,330 --> 00:42:15,010 I'm totally in that camp but even as an 1013 00:42:21,330 --> 00:42:18,340 observer I think you're carrying the day 1014 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:21,340 I mean I think that's where the dialogue 1015 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:23,530 is going whether anyone wants to go 1016 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:26,050 there that's right let me return because 1017 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:27,970 I do want to just ping you on this and I 1018 00:42:32,490 --> 00:42:30,130 don't know how far you want to go in or 1019 00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:32,500 if you want to respond at all but I do 1020 00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:34,630 think when we talk about UFO journalism 1021 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:36,520 there is that that difference that I 1022 00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:38,530 want to draw the distant film is info 1023 00:42:44,580 --> 00:42:41,710 you know it's make into the thing and in 1024 00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:44,590 a lot of ways it reveals more about the 1025 00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:46,720 mainstream media and the pattern that 1026 00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:49,030 you're talking about there because it 1027 00:42:53,970 --> 00:42:51,640 seems to me that they being whoever 1028 00:42:56,190 --> 00:42:53,980 these social engineers are who are 1029 00:42:58,380 --> 00:42:56,200 controlling this message have a lot more 1030 00:43:01,050 --> 00:42:58,390 skin in the game when it comes to UFOs 1031 00:43:04,620 --> 00:43:01,060 so they're out there in a way that most 1032 00:43:06,450 --> 00:43:04,630 people who are not tuned in to this they 1033 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:06,460 couldn't even believe to the extent that 1034 00:43:10,590 --> 00:43:08,290 this stuff has been disclosed you know 1035 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:10,600 like oh yeah I just went and tried to 1036 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:12,850 drive this guy crazy because he had 1037 00:43:18,210 --> 00:43:15,130 revealed a UFO secret and you're like 1038 00:43:19,830 --> 00:43:18,220 we're admitting that this happened or 1039 00:43:21,930 --> 00:43:19,840 you know we're admitting 1040 00:43:24,330 --> 00:43:21,940 we falsified all these records that we 1041 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:24,340 changed the story I mean and then or we 1042 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:27,130 admit that we're in the crowd at the 1043 00:43:33,090 --> 00:43:30,970 MUFON meeting and we're observing the 1044 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:33,100 level of disinformation and 1045 00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:35,170 misinformation that has been 1046 00:43:40,890 --> 00:43:39,280 acknowledged is just staggering so 1047 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:40,900 that's kind of part one and then part 1048 00:43:47,220 --> 00:43:42,970 two is how do you deal with that as a 1049 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:47,230 journalist I don't think I do 1050 00:43:52,740 --> 00:43:50,530 I think I'm not being facetious Alex I 1051 00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:52,750 just feel that this part no we know that 1052 00:43:57,540 --> 00:43:54,880 there is dissing fo and missin foe that 1053 00:43:59,040 --> 00:43:57,550 is largely based on the agenda of what 1054 00:44:01,260 --> 00:43:59,050 what we call I call them the goo makers 1055 00:44:05,010 --> 00:44:01,270 or reality makers reality creators the 1056 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:05,020 social engineers but I don't focus on 1057 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:07,330 that because I think that that I think 1058 00:44:14,910 --> 00:44:11,290 that focusing on that aspect will likely 1059 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:14,920 lead us farther astray I have never been 1060 00:44:20,070 --> 00:44:17,170 able to get my arms around the fact that 1061 00:44:21,870 --> 00:44:20,080 people are more interested in and I'm 1062 00:44:24,660 --> 00:44:21,880 repeating the mechanistic that the 1063 00:44:26,490 --> 00:44:24,670 material this right here and what can 1064 00:44:29,550 --> 00:44:26,500 how it can be manipulated for good or 1065 00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:29,560 bad but just just the material as being 1066 00:44:39,570 --> 00:44:35,440 the primary motivation for discovering 1067 00:44:41,130 --> 00:44:39,580 what may be quote out there there's 1068 00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:41,140 something quite interesting you talked 1069 00:44:44,610 --> 00:44:43,150 about social engineering let's take 1070 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:44,620 those social engineers and let's assume 1071 00:44:48,810 --> 00:44:46,090 that whatever it is they're doing 1072 00:44:51,060 --> 00:44:48,820 whatever it is their agenda but whatever 1073 00:44:55,490 --> 00:44:51,070 their agenda is is not for the good of 1074 00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:55,500 mankind maybe part of that agenda is 1075 00:45:01,410 --> 00:44:58,720 deflecting or or concentrating the 1076 00:45:03,570 --> 00:45:01,420 masses attention on the material when 1077 00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:03,580 they know full well that the immaterial 1078 00:45:09,630 --> 00:45:06,400 that which can still not be quantified 1079 00:45:11,790 --> 00:45:09,640 in human terms is the most powerful the 1080 00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:11,800 most fundamental of our human traits 1081 00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:15,190 that absolutely positively cannot be 1082 00:45:20,670 --> 00:45:18,910 discovered by us does that make sense 1083 00:45:24,660 --> 00:45:20,680 and it comes down to a very fundamental 1084 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:24,670 playbook once we get that game over once 1085 00:45:30,660 --> 00:45:27,010 we get that the power game is over the 1086 00:45:32,010 --> 00:45:30,670 power structure annihilates so if we 1087 00:45:33,690 --> 00:45:32,020 keep the focus I don't care whether it's 1088 00:45:36,329 --> 00:45:33,700 miss info disinfo or 1089 00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:36,339 it doesn't even matter it's not where 1090 00:45:41,010 --> 00:45:37,750 the juice is here 1091 00:45:43,410 --> 00:45:41,020 the juice is with us if we go back and 1092 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:43,420 if you recall I said I have a sense that 1093 00:45:47,130 --> 00:45:45,250 we have a symbiotic relationship with 1094 00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:47,140 whatever we're communicating with at 1095 00:45:51,329 --> 00:45:50,049 whatever level that means we have skin 1096 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:51,339 in the game that means that there is 1097 00:45:55,770 --> 00:45:54,010 something to be discovered about us that 1098 00:45:58,799 --> 00:45:55,780 is heretofore not been discovered that 1099 00:46:00,680 --> 00:45:58,809 we may be getting close to hence the 1100 00:46:03,780 --> 00:46:00,690 reason the social engineers are working 1101 00:46:06,289 --> 00:46:03,790 24/7 to keep that from happening you 1102 00:46:08,910 --> 00:46:06,299 know that that's really interesting and 1103 00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:08,920 we are going to have to dive into that I 1104 00:46:12,930 --> 00:46:10,000 was going to say you know move on to 1105 00:46:14,609 --> 00:46:12,940 something else but there and I'm gonna 1106 00:46:17,069 --> 00:46:14,619 pull it down to a concrete example so 1107 00:46:18,780 --> 00:46:17,079 people can get an idea of what we're 1108 00:46:21,539 --> 00:46:18,790 talking about and then maybe explore the 1109 00:46:24,270 --> 00:46:21,549 differences you know the the other day I 1110 00:46:28,530 --> 00:46:24,280 was kind of forcing my wife to watch one 1111 00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:28,540 of the UFO History Channel is forcing no 1112 00:46:32,670 --> 00:46:31,089 she's you know i beaten her down over 1113 00:46:34,829 --> 00:46:32,680 all these years now where she'll finally 1114 00:46:37,049 --> 00:46:34,839 roulette now and then but we're you know 1115 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:37,059 we're watching ancient aliens and then 1116 00:46:42,530 --> 00:46:39,250 we're watched the show that they're now 1117 00:46:45,870 --> 00:46:42,540 doing on the disclosure the timed along 1118 00:46:48,750 --> 00:46:45,880 that he's put together and it's just to 1119 00:46:50,430 --> 00:46:48,760 me it's complete disinfo miss info and 1120 00:46:52,410 --> 00:46:50,440 I'm watching it with her and I'm just 1121 00:46:55,230 --> 00:46:52,420 kind of pounding the table you know 1122 00:46:56,910 --> 00:46:55,240 can't you see this is an obvious SIOP 1123 00:47:00,299 --> 00:46:56,920 this is completely politically driven 1124 00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,309 every other word is you know those bad 1125 00:47:05,339 --> 00:47:02,079 aliens and how we have to shoot a 1126 00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:05,349 mountain sky and do these overlays of 1127 00:47:11,970 --> 00:47:08,020 the Pentagon and the narrative is just 1128 00:47:14,039 --> 00:47:11,980 like so obvious so clear in terms of the 1129 00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:14,049 message that gets repeated over and over 1130 00:47:17,970 --> 00:47:16,000 again and I thought as soon as the 1131 00:47:20,579 --> 00:47:17,980 December 17th thing rolled out I said 1132 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:20,589 this is a complete PSYOP the narrative 1133 00:47:25,740 --> 00:47:22,690 arm the beginning was just completely 1134 00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:25,750 crazy you know oh they've lied to us for 1135 00:47:30,210 --> 00:47:28,240 60 years Peter Levin died was awesome 1136 00:47:32,910 --> 00:47:30,220 guy but you know they've lied to us for 1137 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:32,920 60 years so Tom and I decided we had to 1138 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:34,930 get to the bottom of this so let me go 1139 00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:39,010 to the Intelligence Agency oh right well 1140 00:47:42,510 --> 00:47:40,030 tell him the truth 1141 00:47:43,950 --> 00:47:42,520 this time the whole thing just seemed 1142 00:47:46,620 --> 00:47:43,960 completely fabricated 1143 00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:46,630 I love Leslie Kaine had around the 1144 00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:48,160 you know she's the one who broke did you 1145 00:47:54,210 --> 00:47:51,670 yeah it's good for you I gave her a 1146 00:47:56,609 --> 00:47:54,220 pretty hard time I said you know I'm 1147 00:47:59,549 --> 00:47:56,619 gonna hear that one doesn't fit this 1148 00:48:02,549 --> 00:47:59,559 just why would we you know what I told 1149 00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:02,559 Leslie I said you know go Google New 1150 00:48:08,759 --> 00:48:05,440 York Times UFOs and put in the date 1151 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:08,769 range of last ten years there's nothing 1152 00:48:13,499 --> 00:48:12,249 and then it comes out December 17th like 1153 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:13,509 oh why weren't they they're covering 1154 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:16,450 your fabulous UFO book why weren't they 1155 00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:19,450 covering the disclosure the press 1156 00:48:24,870 --> 00:48:21,910 conference you know they don't I mean 1157 00:48:28,289 --> 00:48:24,880 come on that is the mouthpiece of them a 1158 00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,299 certain branch of this political group 1159 00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:30,640 right I don't want to go too far because 1160 00:48:35,609 --> 00:48:32,559 I want to get your opinion on this but 1161 00:48:39,150 --> 00:48:35,619 to me that is just obviously a 1162 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:39,160 disclosure wrapped in a political 1163 00:48:44,579 --> 00:48:41,170 science now not that there's anything 1164 00:48:47,370 --> 00:48:44,589 particularly wrong or upsetting about 1165 00:48:49,799 --> 00:48:47,380 that but it does beg the same kind of 1166 00:48:53,309 --> 00:48:49,809 question that that you are raising in 1167 00:48:57,420 --> 00:48:53,319 terms of what is the pattern what is the 1168 00:48:58,799 --> 00:48:57,430 agenda and then I want to roll that in I 1169 00:49:01,019 --> 00:48:58,809 want to give you a chance to respond to 1170 00:49:05,549 --> 00:49:01,029 that but then I want to talk about the 1171 00:49:08,309 --> 00:49:05,559 consciousness as being the the the the 1172 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:08,319 out path you know the way out cuz I'm 1173 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:11,410 not sure that is either but let's start 1174 00:49:18,539 --> 00:49:14,890 with let's start with that SIOP 1175 00:49:21,209 --> 00:49:18,549 political agenda right let's look at the 1176 00:49:23,339 --> 00:49:21,219 broader activity that's going on right 1177 00:49:25,979 --> 00:49:23,349 now obviously the most recent is this 1178 00:49:28,259 --> 00:49:25,989 so-called leaked document that's been 1179 00:49:31,170 --> 00:49:28,269 circulating that I frankly haven't 1180 00:49:33,989 --> 00:49:31,180 briefed haven't perused in total don't 1181 00:49:37,229 --> 00:49:33,999 know that I even want to but what I find 1182 00:49:39,539 --> 00:49:37,239 fascinating and I hope I'm at least 1183 00:49:42,809 --> 00:49:39,549 touching attempting to answer your 1184 00:49:46,049 --> 00:49:42,819 question trying to when we look at all 1185 00:49:47,940 --> 00:49:46,059 of this activity again much of it may be 1186 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:47,950 disinfo we don't know and I'm not gonna 1187 00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:49,690 say that I think it is or isn't but it's 1188 00:49:58,589 --> 00:49:53,710 something significant right now that's 1189 00:50:00,420 --> 00:49:58,599 driving this activity my question now 1190 00:50:01,650 --> 00:50:00,430 I'm gonna go I have not heard anyone 1191 00:50:05,450 --> 00:50:01,660 talk about this and I don't know this is 1192 00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:05,460 just a pondering of mine what is driving 1193 00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:09,040 this whatever it is coming out the shows 1194 00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:10,480 that are coming out that leaked 1195 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:12,400 documents that are coming out and in 1196 00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:13,690 fact I'm planning on talking to grant 1197 00:50:16,410 --> 00:50:14,800 Cameron to see if he can give me the 1198 00:50:18,060 --> 00:50:16,420 lowdown on the latest cuz I know he's 1199 00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:18,070 kind of finding himself in the center of 1200 00:50:26,010 --> 00:50:22,510 this why now and who's driving it or 1201 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:26,020 what is driving it now Alex look I'm 1202 00:50:30,990 --> 00:50:28,930 always going to default back to my 1203 00:50:33,810 --> 00:50:31,000 original position what brought me here 1204 00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:33,820 to begin with and that's my interest not 1205 00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:36,400 in the exit' Eric but in the esoteric 1206 00:50:42,420 --> 00:50:38,110 underpinnings of everything that we 1207 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:42,430 think we see in this 3d world we and our 1208 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:44,770 left brains are saying the what why who 1209 00:50:50,670 --> 00:50:46,930 when why are they doing this how is this 1210 00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:50,680 happening distance though miss info when 1211 00:50:59,040 --> 00:50:54,480 at the root of this there may be 1212 00:51:02,190 --> 00:50:59,050 something else that is trying to force 1213 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:02,200 whomever to play their hand to get this 1214 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:05,770 to come out could there be a nonhuman 1215 00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:09,450 intelligence factor in all of this 1216 00:51:13,710 --> 00:51:10,720 quote-unquote 1217 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:13,720 drip drip disclosure right now I don't 1218 00:51:17,220 --> 00:51:15,130 have an answer to the question this is a 1219 00:51:20,250 --> 00:51:17,230 question that I plan on serving some of 1220 00:51:23,370 --> 00:51:20,260 some of my colleagues later to see there 1221 00:51:24,420 --> 00:51:23,380 is something I just have this 9 feeling 1222 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:24,430 that there is something that is 1223 00:51:32,340 --> 00:51:27,850 undergirding all of this activity that 1224 00:51:35,070 --> 00:51:32,350 may not be at all what we think may not 1225 00:51:37,710 --> 00:51:35,080 be at all what we think I don't know I 1226 00:51:39,570 --> 00:51:37,720 want to explore it I want to explore it 1227 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:39,580 too and I really want to explore it with 1228 00:51:42,900 --> 00:51:41,530 you because you're not only thinking 1229 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:42,910 about it with these musings but you've 1230 00:51:46,050 --> 00:51:44,890 it keeps coming up in your interviews 1231 00:51:47,940 --> 00:51:46,060 over and over again and one of the 1232 00:51:49,350 --> 00:51:47,950 things I want to do today is draw that 1233 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:49,360 out and give you some space to talk 1234 00:51:54,420 --> 00:51:51,490 about it because take like marry rival 1235 00:52:01,260 --> 00:51:54,430 very interesting person and of course 1236 00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:01,270 she is a UFO contactee facilitator 1237 00:52:08,940 --> 00:52:06,420 counselor helpers crack through through 1238 00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:08,950 hypnosis and regression but that a lot 1239 00:52:13,140 --> 00:52:10,960 of times turns people off because 1240 00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:13,150 sometimes her technique isn't even quote 1241 00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:14,240 unquote hypnosis 1242 00:52:19,210 --> 00:52:15,920 just creating a space where people can 1243 00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:19,220 deal with their contact experience and 1244 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:21,700 she's extremely gifted and at this point 1245 00:52:28,030 --> 00:52:24,410 extremely knowledgeable in having dealt 1246 00:52:30,460 --> 00:52:28,040 with thousands of cases just a 1247 00:52:32,980 --> 00:52:30,470 fascinating person and we could spend an 1248 00:52:35,380 --> 00:52:32,990 hour talking about her discoveries and I 1249 00:52:37,780 --> 00:52:35,390 love Mary I was as weather lever to 1250 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:37,790 pieces that's my family is also part of 1251 00:52:41,260 --> 00:52:39,530 this organization this free organization 1252 00:52:45,130 --> 00:52:41,270 we just interviewed ray Hernan might 1253 00:52:47,710 --> 00:52:45,140 write the first scientific survey were 1254 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:47,720 they really went and said okay let's 1255 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:50,210 study this in a scientific way and let's 1256 00:52:54,790 --> 00:52:51,890 ask people have had these contact 1257 00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:54,800 experiences and you know what falls out 1258 00:52:59,350 --> 00:52:57,200 of that immediately is stop calling them 1259 00:53:01,150 --> 00:52:59,360 abductions most of these people who have 1260 00:53:02,980 --> 00:53:01,160 these contact experiences they're not 1261 00:53:04,660 --> 00:53:02,990 calling them abductions they're calling 1262 00:53:06,910 --> 00:53:04,670 them in some cases spiritually 1263 00:53:10,210 --> 00:53:06,920 transformative experiences healing 1264 00:53:11,859 --> 00:53:10,220 experiences or just contact experiences 1265 00:53:14,290 --> 00:53:11,869 but most of them are not calling them 1266 00:53:15,930 --> 00:53:14,300 abductions but here's where I'm sitting 1267 00:53:19,210 --> 00:53:15,940 that I want to get your point on I 1268 00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:19,220 really came into the UFO thing through 1269 00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:21,200 the consciousness thing so I'm over 1270 00:53:24,910 --> 00:53:22,640 there talking to parapsychology 1271 00:53:27,340 --> 00:53:24,920 researchers that was where I started and 1272 00:53:29,859 --> 00:53:27,350 then I went okay if the if the game 1273 00:53:31,690 --> 00:53:29,869 really is this ridiculous materialism 1274 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:31,700 you're a biological robot in a 1275 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:33,890 meaningless universe and why is that 1276 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:36,890 message being propped up in such a silly 1277 00:53:41,770 --> 00:53:38,810 way well that led me to a near-death 1278 00:53:43,780 --> 00:53:41,780 experience because that kind of 1279 00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:43,790 definitively puts an end to that 1280 00:53:47,530 --> 00:53:45,920 discussion these people no longer have a 1281 00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:47,540 functioning brain and yet they're having 1282 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:50,000 these consciousness experiences but when 1283 00:53:54,609 --> 00:53:53,090 you delve past the science of it and get 1284 00:53:57,190 --> 00:53:54,619 into and you know this because you've 1285 00:53:59,140 --> 00:53:57,200 interviewed these people you get into 1286 00:54:04,410 --> 00:53:59,150 that experience that near-death 1287 00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:04,420 experience and what that means it's it's 1288 00:54:10,030 --> 00:54:06,800 challenging because there are parallels 1289 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:10,040 to the contact experience yes also 1290 00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:12,530 differences and I'm a little concerned 1291 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:13,730 like grant 1292 00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:15,410 I love grant to death he's been on the 1293 00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:16,880 show multiple times I consider him a 1294 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:19,520 friend but this idea of the multiple 1295 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:21,890 contact modalities and just kind of 1296 00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:23,450 smoothing it all over and going the 1297 00:54:27,340 --> 00:54:25,609 paranormal is the paranormal and it's 1298 00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:27,350 popping up all these ways and you'll 1299 00:54:31,690 --> 00:54:27,920 hear that from 1300 00:54:33,789 --> 00:54:31,700 whitley strieber - and in this I'm not 1301 00:54:35,650 --> 00:54:33,799 so sure I look through all the 1302 00:54:37,630 --> 00:54:35,660 near-death accounts and talk to the 1303 00:54:40,740 --> 00:54:37,640 scientists and I just had a guy I was a 1304 00:54:43,569 --> 00:54:40,750 fantastic guest and it's like you know 1305 00:54:45,549 --> 00:54:43,579 the number of incidents of a near-death 1306 00:54:48,910 --> 00:54:45,559 experience where someone's being raped 1307 00:54:52,690 --> 00:54:48,920 by a reptilian is zero the number of 1308 00:54:55,839 --> 00:54:52,700 MyLab near-death experiences are zero so 1309 00:54:57,700 --> 00:54:55,849 you know when we're gonna go I'm open to 1310 00:54:59,620 --> 00:54:57,710 the spiritually transformative 1311 00:55:01,839 --> 00:54:59,630 experience as part of the contact 1312 00:55:05,079 --> 00:55:01,849 experience but I want to pump the brakes 1313 00:55:07,420 --> 00:55:05,089 a little bit and aha do we really 1314 00:55:11,079 --> 00:55:07,430 understand the nature of what we're 1315 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:11,089 calling a spiritual experience I mean 1316 00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:13,490 how does all this fit together okay 1317 00:55:19,660 --> 00:55:16,250 obviously I'm not only well aware of 1318 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:19,670 free I am I considered myself a friend 1319 00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:22,010 of free that would be the foundation for 1320 00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:24,530 research into extra well they've changed 1321 00:55:29,380 --> 00:55:26,720 it now extraordinary experiences an 1322 00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:29,390 extra trip free a wonderful organization 1323 00:55:34,329 --> 00:55:32,569 ray is also a friend and has done some 1324 00:55:36,819 --> 00:55:34,339 stellar work he and Mary and dr. Rudi 1325 00:55:44,339 --> 00:55:36,829 Shield etc Kathleen Martin's a part of 1326 00:55:46,809 --> 00:55:44,349 on their board etc here's my zoomed out 1327 00:55:49,569 --> 00:55:46,819 postulate for the moment about I think 1328 00:55:51,010 --> 00:55:49,579 what you're talking about I'm going to 1329 00:55:55,020 --> 00:55:51,020 go back to a philosophy that I have 1330 00:55:58,839 --> 00:55:55,030 that's very broad I have always said 1331 00:56:03,670 --> 00:55:58,849 quote it is not this or that it is this 1332 00:56:08,049 --> 00:56:03,680 and that people get stuck in one or the 1333 00:56:10,299 --> 00:56:08,059 other the ETS are bad the ETS are good 1334 00:56:12,220 --> 00:56:10,309 the experience was malevolent it was 1335 00:56:15,250 --> 00:56:12,230 benevolent it was a spiritual experience 1336 00:56:17,950 --> 00:56:15,260 it was a hellacious experience this or 1337 00:56:20,829 --> 00:56:17,960 that you're talking about a phenomenon 1338 00:56:21,789 --> 00:56:20,839 that could be striking the masses and I 1339 00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:21,799 don't know if we have time to talk about 1340 00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:22,910 it but I could tell you a little bit 1341 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:24,920 about the presentation that I gave in 1342 00:56:28,089 --> 00:56:27,290 January in Australia about this is a 1343 00:56:32,380 --> 00:56:28,099 mass phenomenon 1344 00:56:34,990 --> 00:56:32,390 how on earth Alex can we take a non on 1345 00:56:38,500 --> 00:56:35,000 that I know is ubiquitous and put it 1346 00:56:41,140 --> 00:56:38,510 into nice neat little boxes my sense has 1347 00:56:45,249 --> 00:56:41,150 always been and will remain until for 1348 00:56:49,299 --> 00:56:45,259 no until I learned anymore that there is 1349 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:49,309 a spectrum of experiences I know that 1350 00:56:53,349 --> 00:56:51,650 Ray has got some great numbers I believe 1351 00:56:57,009 --> 00:56:53,359 they're count now for their survey over 1352 00:57:00,640 --> 00:56:57,019 at free is a north of 4000 so there's a 1353 00:57:02,980 --> 00:57:00,650 clearly a solid sample there but we've 1354 00:57:05,890 --> 00:57:02,990 got to look at a couple of factors here 1355 00:57:08,829 --> 00:57:05,900 when when judging the experience broadly 1356 00:57:11,769 --> 00:57:08,839 first of all these are still subjective 1357 00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:11,779 experiences I mean how it has been said 1358 00:57:15,849 --> 00:57:13,970 that according to what so the way our 1359 00:57:17,620 --> 00:57:15,859 brains work you can have an apple in the 1360 00:57:18,759 --> 00:57:17,630 middle of the table you on one side me 1361 00:57:20,739 --> 00:57:18,769 on the other and we're seeing two 1362 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:20,749 completely different things 1363 00:57:26,849 --> 00:57:23,410 even though fundamentally it's an apple 1364 00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:26,859 so the experiences are subjective 1365 00:57:30,819 --> 00:57:28,960 they're subject to interpretation 1366 00:57:32,829 --> 00:57:30,829 because it's still going through the 1367 00:57:35,859 --> 00:57:32,839 human Channel in terms of trying to you 1368 00:57:37,839 --> 00:57:35,869 know capture what it was and I think we 1369 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:37,849 do ourselves a disservice by taking 1370 00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:40,730 aside it's been a the phenomenon the 1371 00:57:46,180 --> 00:57:43,490 aliens are well how what aliens which 1372 00:57:47,890 --> 00:57:46,190 ones are we talking about do you know 1373 00:57:51,609 --> 00:57:47,900 how many species it's been said that 1374 00:57:53,769 --> 00:57:51,619 have been identified in some cases 3,000 1375 00:57:55,239 --> 00:57:53,779 is a number I've got now I don't know if 1376 00:57:56,859 --> 00:57:55,249 that's true or not but I think the 1377 00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:56,869 inference here is that we're dealing 1378 00:58:01,359 --> 00:57:58,480 with a very large complex 1379 00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:01,369 multi-dimensional phenomenon with 1380 00:58:06,849 --> 00:58:03,920 virtually every aspect of experience 1381 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:06,859 from the most hideous to the most 1382 00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:11,210 euphoric and everything in between the 1383 00:58:18,789 --> 00:58:14,210 into the entities themselves the most 1384 00:58:24,220 --> 00:58:18,799 benevolent loving to the most hideous we 1385 00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:24,230 can imagine I refuse to take aside here 1386 00:58:32,109 --> 00:58:28,609 I again want to just stay in an active 1387 00:58:34,539 --> 00:58:32,119 up observation and know that this this 1388 00:58:35,769 --> 00:58:34,549 sucker that we call reality and all 1389 00:58:39,579 --> 00:58:35,779 these things that are happening within 1390 00:58:43,479 --> 00:58:39,589 it are just absolutely too broad to to 1391 00:58:44,799 --> 00:58:43,489 want to put a label on I don't know that 1392 00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:44,809 it all answered your question but I am 1393 00:58:49,269 --> 00:58:46,880 absolutely so determined to get that 1394 00:58:50,769 --> 00:58:49,279 message out and we would do ourselves we 1395 00:58:52,029 --> 00:58:50,779 would do so much better if we would 1396 00:58:53,660 --> 00:58:52,039 start to take our foot off the gas pedal 1397 00:58:55,820 --> 00:58:53,670 of that 1398 00:58:57,650 --> 00:58:55,830 that goes for array as well right if 1399 00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:57,660 you're listening and Ray and I will talk 1400 00:59:03,380 --> 00:59:01,440 about that I am you know we have to stop 1401 00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:03,390 making proclamations about things we 1402 00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:06,960 still just don't understand that's where 1403 00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:08,400 that humility comes in 1404 00:59:12,110 --> 00:59:11,280 we're out of our league here it is you 1405 00:59:14,510 --> 00:59:12,120 know you're speaking of Whitley Strieber 1406 00:59:17,420 --> 00:59:14,520 there's something that um I have 1407 00:59:19,730 --> 00:59:17,430 actually just introduced him his speech 1408 00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:19,740 is just talk rather at contact in the 1409 00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:21,510 desert I love Whitley and he's been on 1410 00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:23,730 the show he said something that you 1411 00:59:27,850 --> 00:59:25,890 probably know that the love of his life 1412 00:59:30,890 --> 00:59:27,860 an who's been gone several years now 1413 00:59:33,380 --> 00:59:30,900 according to him remains in contact with 1414 00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:33,390 him and I've listened fervently to the 1415 00:59:37,550 --> 00:59:35,130 stories that he's told regardless of 1416 00:59:40,730 --> 00:59:37,560 what's happening there whatever messages 1417 00:59:43,250 --> 00:59:40,740 he's getting are worth hearing whether 1418 00:59:46,010 --> 00:59:43,260 from an or some other source it's at the 1419 00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:46,020 point but one thing he told he's told 1420 00:59:51,350 --> 00:59:48,330 before and he told me again in our 1421 00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:51,360 interview that and came up with 1422 00:59:56,450 --> 00:59:53,490 something based on a question that he 1423 01:00:01,120 --> 00:59:56,460 had and he said that an said to him in 1424 01:00:06,590 --> 01:00:01,130 response humans would be better off not 1425 01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:06,600 believing but in asking questions not in 1426 01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:09,450 adopting a belief take your foot off the 1427 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:11,730 gas pedal we'd be better off with 1428 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:14,010 questions there's a lot of questions 1429 01:00:18,530 --> 01:00:17,010 that we need to be asking and it seems 1430 01:00:22,670 --> 01:00:18,540 like we're putting more emphasis on 1431 01:00:24,830 --> 01:00:22,680 adopting a position rather than asking a 1432 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:24,840 question if that makes sense 1433 01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:26,250 I botched the quote I'm gonna see if I 1434 01:00:29,270 --> 01:00:28,050 can find it but I think I understand 1435 01:00:31,460 --> 01:00:29,280 where you're coming from with the 1436 01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:31,470 overall point and yeah I get the 1437 01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:35,280 humility of asking questions I mean the 1438 01:00:40,850 --> 01:00:37,680 tagline of one of the tag lines is of 1439 01:00:45,380 --> 01:00:40,860 this show is inquiry to perpetuate doubt 1440 01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:45,390 I think doubt and as you're certain as 1441 01:00:51,890 --> 01:00:48,170 your certainty goes up I think you're 1442 01:00:54,140 --> 01:00:51,900 closing off two more things but I want 1443 01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:54,150 to pull you back into one part of that 1444 01:00:58,070 --> 01:00:55,680 question because I'm interested in your 1445 01:01:02,630 --> 01:00:58,080 opinion and I maybe didn't frame it up 1446 01:01:06,470 --> 01:01:02,640 right I'm curious about the nature of 1447 01:01:09,010 --> 01:01:06,480 these extended realms and whether the 1448 01:01:13,010 --> 01:01:09,020 whether we're seeing a hierarchy and 1449 01:01:16,780 --> 01:01:13,020 whether what we're getting so worked up 1450 01:01:20,780 --> 01:01:16,790 about in terms of the contact experience 1451 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:20,790 is much more familiar to us because it 1452 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:24,290 is us in this middle ground in this 1453 01:01:31,930 --> 01:01:28,290 time-space continuum that is probably by 1454 01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:31,940 all measures a tiny part of the overall 1455 01:01:36,710 --> 01:01:34,890 consciousness absolutely we look at our 1456 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:36,720 lesser reality which is our time-space 1457 01:01:42,020 --> 01:01:39,330 reality and we extrapolate out of that 1458 01:01:45,050 --> 01:01:42,030 and we make all these conclusions and 1459 01:01:47,540 --> 01:01:45,060 people slip out of that either through 1460 01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:47,550 contact experience but what I really 1461 01:01:51,260 --> 01:01:49,290 want to focus on is the near-death 1462 01:01:53,300 --> 01:01:51,270 experience they slip out of the 1463 01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:53,310 time-space continuum and they come back 1464 01:02:00,380 --> 01:01:57,330 saying a lot different things I contrast 1465 01:02:03,190 --> 01:02:00,390 the near-death experience and the 1466 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:03,200 spiritual transformative aspects of that 1467 01:02:10,070 --> 01:02:08,010 to the et contact experience and I just 1468 01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:10,080 have a hunch that something doesn't 1469 01:02:19,270 --> 01:02:14,160 exactly jive they're there to equate 1470 01:02:22,010 --> 01:02:19,280 those in a way that that we we maybe are 1471 01:02:24,050 --> 01:02:22,020 misguided in doing so and I don't want 1472 01:02:26,330 --> 01:02:24,060 to make any conclusions about that I 1473 01:02:29,450 --> 01:02:26,340 don't want to say one's demonic or 1474 01:02:33,110 --> 01:02:29,460 satanic or any of that I just want to 1475 01:02:35,210 --> 01:02:33,120 sit back and go back to Alexis pattern 1476 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:35,220 thing and I want to make there's a 1477 01:02:40,190 --> 01:02:37,890 difference in this pattern than that 1478 01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:40,200 pattern okay yeah I think all excited 1479 01:02:43,730 --> 01:02:42,240 about the similarities but what about 1480 01:02:47,570 --> 01:02:43,740 the differences so what you're really 1481 01:02:49,970 --> 01:02:47,580 you're questioning the are we looking at 1482 01:02:52,820 --> 01:02:49,980 apples to apples if I could just just 1483 01:02:54,740 --> 01:02:52,830 break it down right are we looking at 1484 01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:54,750 apples to apples here is the near-death 1485 01:02:58,250 --> 01:02:56,730 experience can you equate that to a 1486 01:03:00,440 --> 01:02:58,260 contact experience can you equate that 1487 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:00,450 to an OBE can you equate that to a 1488 01:03:05,090 --> 01:03:02,850 shamanic journey and Iowa's cat trip at 1489 01:03:08,420 --> 01:03:05,100 Al apples to apples the answer in my 1490 01:03:13,820 --> 01:03:08,430 humble opinion is no it is not apples to 1491 01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:13,830 apples however there are in my from my 1492 01:03:17,390 --> 01:03:15,690 perspective and what I have seen and 1493 01:03:20,059 --> 01:03:17,400 studied particularly with out-of-body 1494 01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:20,069 experience at about OBEs and 1495 01:03:25,329 --> 01:03:22,410 called abductions there are common 1496 01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:25,339 threads inherent in many of these 1497 01:03:33,769 --> 01:03:28,640 experiences crossovers if you will 1498 01:03:35,809 --> 01:03:33,779 enough in my estimation to beg the 1499 01:03:37,789 --> 01:03:35,819 question what is the common denominator 1500 01:03:40,519 --> 01:03:37,799 here that is allowing for these 1501 01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:40,529 experiences to happen Alex I'm very 1502 01:03:45,140 --> 01:03:43,049 conservative and in any Proclamation on 1503 01:03:48,769 --> 01:03:45,150 any of this this is this is a position I 1504 01:03:51,620 --> 01:03:48,779 refuse to relent on I don't know 1505 01:03:55,759 --> 01:03:51,630 but I do have a feeling about certain 1506 01:03:58,819 --> 01:03:55,769 things another level on this stuff that 1507 01:04:02,599 --> 01:03:58,829 is completely different is it is there a 1508 01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:02,609 god spiritual soul path that doesn't 1509 01:04:10,370 --> 01:04:04,650 really it's completely different than 1510 01:04:11,870 --> 01:04:10,380 your alien contact now DMT listen let me 1511 01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:11,880 let me tell you something that I find 1512 01:04:17,559 --> 01:04:13,440 interesting maybe I'll answer with a 1513 01:04:21,769 --> 01:04:17,569 question are we living in a simulation 1514 01:04:23,329 --> 01:04:21,779 and that that's another maybe I open up 1515 01:04:24,859 --> 01:04:23,339 a can of worms there I don't know but 1516 01:04:28,519 --> 01:04:24,869 these are the questions I've asked 1517 01:04:30,499 --> 01:04:28,529 myself what if anything is triggering 1518 01:04:32,829 --> 01:04:30,509 all of this you now you're bringing God 1519 01:04:35,779 --> 01:04:32,839 into this the question is what is God 1520 01:04:38,660 --> 01:04:35,789 what role are we playing in the God 1521 01:04:41,269 --> 01:04:38,670 force overall I think you know I forgive 1522 01:04:42,829 --> 01:04:41,279 me but I'm the questioner man I don't 1523 01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:42,839 have an answer I have thought about 1524 01:04:45,559 --> 01:04:44,880 these things but I absolutely have no 1525 01:04:46,849 --> 01:04:45,569 idea 1526 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:46,859 now you mentioned one thing that's 1527 01:04:51,890 --> 01:04:48,690 interesting you talk about hierarchy and 1528 01:04:56,359 --> 01:04:51,900 all of this I've always taken issue with 1529 01:04:58,670 --> 01:04:56,369 hierarchy from a broader perspective you 1530 01:05:01,640 --> 01:04:58,680 think of you know we we toss this term 1531 01:05:02,809 --> 01:05:01,650 around ascension an ascended masters I 1532 01:05:04,609 --> 01:05:02,819 just had a conversation with someone 1533 01:05:07,069 --> 01:05:04,619 about the ascended masters and what it 1534 01:05:10,099 --> 01:05:07,079 means to ascend and I've always had a 1535 01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:10,109 little bit of an aversion to terms that 1536 01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:13,609 denote hierarchy including ascension is 1537 01:05:22,009 --> 01:05:16,799 there maybe the question is is there 1538 01:05:24,370 --> 01:05:22,019 some aspect of intelligence that we 1539 01:05:28,099 --> 01:05:24,380 would think to be more evolved than us 1540 01:05:31,579 --> 01:05:28,109 that is sort of orchestrating or 1541 01:05:33,940 --> 01:05:31,589 architecting this perhaps game that 1542 01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:33,950 we're in 1543 01:05:39,250 --> 01:05:36,770 that's really what I'm kind of tired the 1544 01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:39,260 reason I go towards the hierarchical 1545 01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:41,810 stuff is I feel like I'm just following 1546 01:05:48,130 --> 01:05:45,530 the data so go look at the NDE accounts 1547 01:05:50,530 --> 01:05:48,140 to a lesser extent the alien contact 1548 01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:50,540 accounts but the NDE accounts are clear 1549 01:05:54,970 --> 01:05:52,640 there is a hierarchy there's a hierarchy 1550 01:05:57,430 --> 01:05:54,980 there's a hierarchy not my words it's 1551 01:05:59,200 --> 01:05:57,440 just what they say I felt that there 1552 01:06:01,930 --> 01:05:59,210 were realms and then I felt there were 1553 01:06:04,450 --> 01:06:01,940 realms above NBC what you're saying oh 1554 01:06:08,470 --> 01:06:04,460 okay oh I see what you're saying hmm 1555 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:08,480 you're talking about the DA sure look so 1556 01:06:11,890 --> 01:06:10,490 here's how I would come back at that in 1557 01:06:13,870 --> 01:06:11,900 terms of the description of a 1558 01:06:17,349 --> 01:06:13,880 hierarchical so you've got the astral 1559 01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:17,359 then you've got the the causal plane 1560 01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:19,490 they're different planes all of these 1561 01:06:24,130 --> 01:06:21,530 have come through our ancient texts in 1562 01:06:27,060 --> 01:06:24,140 some form or fashion here's the common 1563 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:27,070 denominator in this hierarchical 1564 01:06:33,970 --> 01:06:31,730 explanation human beings and what rules 1565 01:06:36,970 --> 01:06:33,980 do we live by we live in a linear time 1566 01:06:39,790 --> 01:06:36,980 frame and we live hierarchically so no 1567 01:06:42,730 --> 01:06:39,800 matter whether we've experienced these 1568 01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:42,740 are you know whatever it was ourselves 1569 01:06:46,410 --> 01:06:44,210 or we're just you know reading the 1570 01:06:50,740 --> 01:06:46,420 literature we still process information 1571 01:06:52,180 --> 01:06:50,750 hierarchically as long as the experience 1572 01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:52,190 is coming through the human filter it 1573 01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:54,170 has to be an interpretation 1574 01:06:59,829 --> 01:06:57,170 it cannot be pure because we're still 1575 01:07:00,970 --> 01:06:59,839 corporeal in form that's kind of 1576 01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:00,980 limiting because then why are we even 1577 01:07:04,630 --> 01:07:03,170 having this discussion but we are having 1578 01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:04,640 this discussion yeah 1579 01:07:09,370 --> 01:07:07,010 because but we are trying to find these 1580 01:07:11,710 --> 01:07:09,380 patterns it's back to fine right I love 1581 01:07:14,349 --> 01:07:11,720 not getting too attached to it and have 1582 01:07:17,290 --> 01:07:14,359 any humility but I don't want to shy 1583 01:07:18,940 --> 01:07:17,300 away from a good date and I'm not coming 1584 01:07:21,190 --> 01:07:18,950 at this at all from a religious 1585 01:07:22,900 --> 01:07:21,200 perspective and I get bashed on the show 1586 01:07:25,510 --> 01:07:22,910 all the time for being an anti-religious 1587 01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:25,520 which I guess I am but I'm just 1588 01:07:30,579 --> 01:07:27,770 following the data and the data is 1589 01:07:33,069 --> 01:07:30,589 saying god you know it's saying God over 1590 01:07:35,559 --> 01:07:33,079 and over again and not a guy on a cloud 1591 01:07:38,410 --> 01:07:35,569 with the white beard but in terms of 1592 01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:38,420 being this organizing principle could it 1593 01:07:47,140 --> 01:07:44,770 be that the eat that et is tied to this 1594 01:07:50,020 --> 01:07:47,150 time-space continuum 1595 01:07:52,450 --> 01:07:50,030 and is playing that game in a way that 1596 01:07:55,260 --> 01:07:52,460 we don't fully appreciate and that there 1597 01:07:58,510 --> 01:07:55,270 is a bigger game outside of that the the 1598 01:08:01,630 --> 01:07:58,520 spiritual game the god game and that ET 1599 01:08:04,090 --> 01:08:01,640 isn't totally in that game either here's 1600 01:08:08,170 --> 01:08:04,100 the question is ET having a near-death 1601 01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:08,180 experience having a soul journey kind of 1602 01:08:14,530 --> 01:08:11,530 life review hey you know you really 1603 01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:14,540 shouldn't be well let me stop you there 1604 01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:17,210 exactly at the thought it could very 1605 01:08:21,820 --> 01:08:18,890 well be this is work this is where it 1606 01:08:23,170 --> 01:08:21,830 gets mind twisting and is is is really 1607 01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:23,180 there are no words to really describe 1608 01:08:29,770 --> 01:08:25,370 what you're what you're contemplating 1609 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:29,780 here again I go back to this idea of the 1610 01:08:35,770 --> 01:08:33,530 possibility of a simulation implicit in 1611 01:08:37,690 --> 01:08:35,780 this model of a simulated that reality 1612 01:08:39,670 --> 01:08:37,700 not just this reality but other 1613 01:08:43,390 --> 01:08:39,680 realities are simulated that they are 1614 01:08:47,260 --> 01:08:43,400 nestled one within the other so that one 1615 01:08:49,210 --> 01:08:47,270 reality is created by let's you you're 1616 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:49,220 calling it ET let's just say let's say 1617 01:08:54,220 --> 01:08:51,530 our reality has been created by another 1618 01:09:01,210 --> 01:08:54,230 we'll call it ET I don't like that term 1619 01:09:03,220 --> 01:09:01,220 I like nhi but but within that word ET 1620 01:09:05,740 --> 01:09:03,230 lives so to speak I'm speaking 1621 01:09:07,690 --> 01:09:05,750 figuratively of course they are having 1622 01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:07,700 an experience of which they're nestled 1623 01:09:11,500 --> 01:09:08,960 in a reality that's been created by 1624 01:09:13,180 --> 01:09:11,510 something or someone else and on and on 1625 01:09:16,150 --> 01:09:13,190 and goes it's been described as the 1626 01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:16,160 Russian dolls you know Linda Moulton de 1627 01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:17,210 Mille and Howe and I have had this 1628 01:09:20,740 --> 01:09:19,010 discussion before in the context of a 1629 01:09:22,870 --> 01:09:20,750 simulated reality so I think your 1630 01:09:26,860 --> 01:09:22,880 questions Noble I I don't know it could 1631 01:09:30,900 --> 01:09:26,870 very well be all I know is it what we 1632 01:09:34,900 --> 01:09:30,910 are trying to parse is nearly impossible 1633 01:09:37,930 --> 01:09:34,910 to do so appropriately in human terms 1634 01:09:38,980 --> 01:09:37,940 and I think it can be futile we want to 1635 01:09:43,570 --> 01:09:38,990 make sure we're asking the right 1636 01:09:46,090 --> 01:09:43,580 questions as well you know so long as 1637 01:09:49,210 --> 01:09:46,100 we're gonna play the game of aleut the 1638 01:09:51,490 --> 01:09:49,220 illusion of moving towards an answer we 1639 01:09:53,830 --> 01:09:51,500 might as well play the best we can 1640 01:09:55,690 --> 01:09:53,840 that's we can of course well I say never 1641 01:09:57,839 --> 01:09:55,700 ever ever stop asking the questions 1642 01:10:01,470 --> 01:09:57,849 never be shy about explore 1643 01:10:03,060 --> 01:10:01,480 the mystery you know I love a richard 1644 01:10:04,620 --> 01:10:03,070 feynman who says it does no harm to the 1645 01:10:06,209 --> 01:10:04,630 mystery to know a little bit about it 1646 01:10:08,660 --> 01:10:06,219 hopefully we're getting a little bit 1647 01:10:15,990 --> 01:10:13,530 Alexis again I do hope that people check 1648 01:10:19,050 --> 01:10:16,000 out your work higher journeys radio 1649 01:10:20,609 --> 01:10:19,060 higher journey's calm which is awesome 1650 01:10:23,700 --> 01:10:20,619 they'll also find you at the 1651 01:10:26,010 --> 01:10:23,710 consciousness Life Expo a lot of times 1652 01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:26,020 but you're a lot of other events you're 1653 01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:29,530 doing a lot of things tell folks how is 1654 01:10:32,850 --> 01:10:31,360 the best way for them to connect with 1655 01:10:35,189 --> 01:10:32,860 what you're up to 1656 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:35,199 sure well again as you said higher 1657 01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:39,010 journeys dot-com is my home online as 1658 01:10:41,970 --> 01:10:40,510 much as websites are these days it seems 1659 01:10:43,890 --> 01:10:41,980 like people are spending more time on 1660 01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:43,900 social media but in that regard I do 1661 01:10:47,490 --> 01:10:45,610 have a Facebook page as well where 1662 01:10:49,709 --> 01:10:47,500 people can reach me and learn about the 1663 01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:49,719 events that I will be showing up that 1664 01:10:55,830 --> 01:10:52,510 and one's coming up actually next month 1665 01:10:58,890 --> 01:10:55,840 July 18th and 19th or 19th and 20th I'll 1666 01:11:00,750 --> 01:10:58,900 be in Manchester England with with my 1667 01:11:03,419 --> 01:11:00,760 buddies Richard Dolan and his beautiful 1668 01:11:05,129 --> 01:11:03,429 wife Tracey and Linda Moulton Howe and 1669 01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:05,139 David Childress and I believe grant 1670 01:11:10,589 --> 01:11:06,449 Cameron is coming as well for the 1671 01:11:12,089 --> 01:11:10,599 awakening and conscious life Expo UFO 1672 01:11:13,859 --> 01:11:12,099 and conscious life Expo in Manchester 1673 01:11:16,050 --> 01:11:13,869 England I'll be going back to Australia 1674 01:11:17,970 --> 01:11:16,060 to lecture more about this great stuff 1675 01:11:20,220 --> 01:11:17,980 my second time there so I'm really 1676 01:11:22,740 --> 01:11:20,230 excited about that and I see you've got 1677 01:11:24,689 --> 01:11:22,750 a visual of my my my book that I cannot 1678 01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:24,699 believe it's been 5 years since I put 1679 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:27,250 this out conscious musings but that book 1680 01:11:31,709 --> 01:11:30,010 is still available available and I 1681 01:11:34,050 --> 01:11:31,719 believe in all fine bookstores but of 1682 01:11:37,589 --> 01:11:34,060 course Amazon as well as Barnes & Noble 1683 01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:37,599 etc and my web site so well it's been 1684 01:11:43,919 --> 01:11:40,570 just awesome connecting with you and I 1685 01:11:46,530 --> 01:11:43,929 just wanna show your work and appreciate 1686 01:11:48,300 --> 01:11:46,540 you joining me today on sceptical and I 1687 01:11:50,250 --> 01:11:48,310 appreciate you and what you're doing